tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post5854986387457390237..comments2024-03-28T16:45:51.051+00:00Comments on The IPKat: Where is Haar and how did it get there? Observations on Geography while Waiting for G2/19Verónica Rodríguez Arguijohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05763207846940036921noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-39804602942950332962019-05-01T07:12:20.283+01:002019-05-01T07:12:20.283+01:00It does not really help to start splitting hairs. ...It does not really help to start splitting hairs. The city of Munich and the Munich Landkreis are two different legal entities. They have their own, different administration units. <br /><br />If you are resident in the Landkreis, and let's say you need a driving license or a passport, if you go to the city of Munich administrative unit, the so-called Kreisverwaltungsreferat, you will be send away. This is a reality which does not compare with London and its 32 boroughs. <br /><br />Another comparison comes to light. At the well-known Oktoberfest, only breweries from Munich are allowed to sell their beer. If a brewery would relocate outside the boundaries of the city of Munich, i.e. in the Landkreis, they would be excluded from the Oktoberfest. Lots of breweries have moved partly from the centre of the city, but they always took great care not to move one inch over the boundary, exactly for this reason!<br /><br />You may want to interpret the EPC, but nowhere in the mind of its fathers, had they ever envisaged to send part of the EPO outside the boundaries of the city of Munich. The decision was to locate the EPO next to the German Patent Office, in the so-called Isar building. There even used to be an underground passageway between the two buildings!<br /><br />When the original EPO building became too small to take into account its growth, it has never been envisaged to lease or build anywhere else than within the boundaries of the city of Munich. You find nowadays the bulk of examiners in the vicinity of the main station. The mechanics principal directorate was temporarily relocated in a suburb, Neu-Perlach, but still within the boundaries of the city of Munich. <br /><br />There would have been plenty of other buildings within the boundaries of Munich to relocate the Boards of Appeal, should the Isar building proved to be too small. It was pure retaliation to send the Boards of Appeal away to Haar, and in order to add insult to injury to claim that the move would increase the perception of their independence. <br />Haar is not Munichnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-2002208384616294292019-04-27T19:56:02.236+01:002019-04-27T19:56:02.236+01:00As annonymous correctly states, comparisons are im...As annonymous correctly states, comparisons are imperfect. This also applies to the City of London comparison. The City of London together with the 32 Boroughs is part of Greater London which is a common administrative unit and presumably it is the one competent for the essential local matters. There is no common unit for Munich and the Landkreis, the next higher level of administration is the district of Upper Bavaria, one of 7 districts building the Land Bavaria. More important may be the common understanding of the terms. No Londoner and no foreigner would think Westminster could be outside London. However, nobody in and around Munich would agree that Haar is part of Munich, including the inhabitants of Haar.The Convention watchdognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-91336483005201734042019-04-25T10:13:50.517+01:002019-04-25T10:13:50.517+01:00Yes, I understand that "Landkreis München&quo...Yes, I understand that "Landkreis München" does not itself include the city of Munich. Perhaps my question was unclear. What I mean is: why can the meaning of the word "Munich" in the EPC not simply be interpreted to mean "a location which is EITHER in the city of Munich OR in Landkreis München"? i.e. that "Munich", for the purposes of the EPC, means the combination of the city Munich *and* the Landkreis which shares its name? This way, it is possible to interpret "Munich" for the purposes of the EPC as being broader than the city itself, while still having a well-defined geographical scope.<br /><br />To draw a comparison (which is, admittedly, imperfect): imagine that the EPC instead said "London". A narrow interpretation might be that this should mean "the City of London". A broader interpretation might be that this should mean "anywhere within the 32 London Boroughs" - but (like Landkreis München vis-a-vis the city of Munich) the London Boroughs do not include the City of London. The holistic view would, perhaps, instead be to take the view that "London" means "the City of London or any of the 32 London Boroughs".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-66402630838266560322019-04-24T08:30:52.898+01:002019-04-24T08:30:52.898+01:00What the "Landkreis München" is, is not ...What the "Landkreis München" is, is not a matter of interpretation but a matter of fact. It does not include Munich, see the list of municipalities of the Landkreis on Wikipedia.The Convention watchdognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-33025731684707517962019-04-18T10:02:21.863+01:002019-04-18T10:02:21.863+01:00Why does the possible interpretation of "Muni...Why does the possible interpretation of "Munich" as "Landkreis München" have to be *exclusive* of the City of Munich? Would it not also be in keeping with the Vienna Convention to interpret "Munich" in Art. 6 EPC as meaning "a location within either of the City of Munich and Landkreis München"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-25657535440299521062019-04-18T08:44:48.288+01:002019-04-18T08:44:48.288+01:00As to geography:
To make it quite clear, the Landk...As to geography:<br />To make it quite clear, the Landkreis München is not a broader area than the City of Munich but a different area. It comprises municipalities outside Munich but not Munich itself.<br />In this respect, the referring decision addresses an interesting point at Reasons, pt. 3.3. The Headquarters Agreement between the European Patent Organisation and Germany, concluded implementing Art. 25 of the Protocol on Privileges and Immunities, contains in its Articles 11 and 12 provisions on the premises of the Organisation in Munich and of the Berlin sub-office. The Berlin sub-office has its legal basis in Section I, Article 3 a) of the Protocol on Centralisation which is part of the Convention pursuant to Art. 164 (1) EPC. The case of Rijswijk is governed by the corresponding Agreement with the Netherlands, defining in its Article 1: "branch" means the branch of the European Patent Office at The Hague (Rijswijk), in order to make clear that the existing premises of the IIB are covered by the Agreement and the Protocol on Privileges and Immunities. In any case this shows that the legal situation for Berlin and Rijswijk is different from the situation for Haar. The competence in Article 7 EPC to create further sub-offices does not cover sub-offices for the departments of the EPO entrusted with procedural functions under the Convention. <br />The Convention watchdognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-37650722623270387712019-04-17T14:04:14.286+01:002019-04-17T14:04:14.286+01:00You don't mention that the EPO summons parties...You don't mention that the EPO summons parties to oral proceedings in the Berlin office. So Berlin is more than just a "sub-office"..."for the purpose of information and liaison"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com