tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post1943909882473874288..comments2024-03-18T17:10:35.838+00:00Comments on The IPKat: Acronyms in descriptive composite marks: how to handle them when comparing marksVerónica Rodríguez Arguijohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05763207846940036921noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-74765403709570876832015-03-20T20:24:47.266+00:002015-03-20T20:24:47.266+00:00The problem about English is that "many Engli...The problem about English is that "many English consider learning a foreign language as flamboyant as wearing a crown in a bus"...<br /><br />when you say "It's not because English is English that the IPKat raises this issue. It's because it's a major language of international trade, used and relied upon by businesses and investors in the US and other major jurisdictions outside the EU such as India. "... are you sure there is anyone out there who believes you ? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-3161192031633991312015-03-20T13:38:42.672+00:002015-03-20T13:38:42.672+00:00There are regrettably not plenty of people with th...There are regrettably not plenty of people with the language skills. There are plenty of non native speakers who do speak English well but that was not originally the job description but it might become so. For court judgments, you expect a certain standard as you do for legislation (don't start).There is a crisis in recruitment of native speakers of English as translators. Certain institutions are faced with many translators and interpreters coming up to retirement and it will get worse as they are not being replaced. What is needed is the appointment of native speakers as translators and for that one relies on the MS to produce them (only EU nationals can work at the institutions). Failing which and there is a clear failure to produce them in the general education system, and the resources for bespoke training are now scarce, one has no choice but to wait until the stretched translators can manage. The alternative is to move to "English as a second language translation into English" model. This is beginning to happen and it is a second best option.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-8969840611413821802015-03-20T12:59:28.146+00:002015-03-20T12:59:28.146+00:00Thanks, Anonymous of 12:28, for your comment (are ...Thanks, Anonymous of 12:28, for your comment (are you also the Anonymous of 10:35?)<br /><br />I think you are missing the point. There are far more English-speakers outside the European Union than inside it, and there are plenty of people with the necessary language translation skills. What is needed is the appointment of more translators.Jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01123244020588707776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-90161025344427822752015-03-20T12:28:22.814+00:002015-03-20T12:28:22.814+00:00There is no occasion when it is not published in F...There is no occasion when it is not published in French immediately. Leaving aside the Court, the working languages of the other institutions are French, German and English and regrettably not Spanish.What you can end up with at the moment is good French and German documents written by native speakers and not up to the mark English written by non native speakers. Odd formulations here and there which give the game away. Do you want those versions which can be churned out quickly or do you wish as a nation to invest in foreign language training for native speakers of English? It will give young British people jobs.<br /><br /> In any event, everything you say only points to why it is worth waiting for the authoritative English version which does tend to come out later, if at all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-80972945758579543982015-03-20T10:54:20.285+00:002015-03-20T10:54:20.285+00:00Thanks, Anonymous at 10:35 am, for clarifying your...Thanks, Anonymous at 10:35 am, for clarifying your point.<br /><br />It is indeed a consistent policy of the IPKat to criticise the absence of an immediately available English version of CJEU and General Court decisions and AG Opinions.<br /><br />I'm not sure why an English translation that appears at the time the text is placed online is, or should be, any more "rapidly churned out" than the versions that are made available in other languages, for example Maltese, Czech or Finnish -- or, for that matter French or German.<br /><br />The IPKat's point is that the decisions of the CJEU and General Court are not just there for academics to ponder on. They are part of a vital web of current legal information on which commercial decisions are made, businesses rely and which lawyers strive to explain to their clients. For example, reasoning in a Community trade mark opposition decision might be of immediate relevance to proceedings relating to national versions of the same mark in EU member states -- or to strategic issues such as whether to appeal or to apply to stay proceedings before one tribunal pending the outcome of a dispute in another one. Without a reliable and relatively authoritative translation it can be difficult to make the right decisions, and judges in national courts may be asked to accept one party's translated version of a case in preference to another's.<br /><br />It's not because English is English that the IPKat raises this issue. It's because it's a major language of international trade, used and relied upon by businesses and investors in the US and other major jurisdictions outside the EU such as India. <br /><br />In case you ask, the IPKat believes that the same considerations apply to the provision of authoritative translations into French and Spanish, at the very least.Jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01123244020588707776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-86241229165672781442015-03-20T10:35:40.942+00:002015-03-20T10:35:40.942+00:00The individual blog entry is one thing but it is a...The individual blog entry is one thing but it is a consistent policy of the IPKAT to criticise the absence of a rapidly churned out English version of Court judgments and opinions. <br /><br />The point was that waiting for it leads to a better end product.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-41045774243564416932015-03-19T23:40:07.734+00:002015-03-19T23:40:07.734+00:00Well, if we are going to be nit-picking, "Ges...Well, if we are going to be nit-picking, "Gesundheitswirtschaf" means "health-landlord's sheep", whereas just a final "t" would have made it clear that it is business or economy.<br /><br />Kind regards,<br /><br /><br />George Brock-Nannestad<br /><br />(no need to publish!) Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-18182459842919589242015-03-19T22:20:59.441+00:002015-03-19T22:20:59.441+00:00Anonymous at 20:37 When I noted that the text of ...Anonymous at 20:37 When I noted that the text of this decision was not available in English, I did so as a courtesy to our readers, many of whom -- particularly those from Asian countries -- are proficient in no European language other than English.<br /><br />For the record, this blogpost was composed without the need to resort to an English version of the text. It was authored by our guest Kat Valentina Torelli, an Italian lawyer who practises in Spain and who can cope with French as well as English.Merpel McKittennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-58308482096537508782015-03-19T20:37:59.059+00:002015-03-19T20:37:59.059+00:00Once and for all, the reason it is not in English ...Once and for all, the reason it is not in English yet might be or in all likelihood is due to a lack of resources as there are not enough native English speakers at the Court (or anywhere) who are skilled in other languages and who can proof read and correct. That is the last leg of the process.<br /><br />Now you may say in the interests of speed and so that monolingual English professionals can read the opinions, judgments in English that the Court should farm this work out to non native speakers of English who can no doubt do it but that will be to the detriment of English language versions in general. So it is in your interests to wait for the English version which sometimes, it is true does not appear. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-84015666590271688172015-03-19T20:13:53.104+00:002015-03-19T20:13:53.104+00:00I like the TLS one - if you can call J.C.B. a word...I like the TLS one - if you can call J.C.B. a word, I suppose anything is an acronym.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-75217099893824095522015-03-19T20:04:05.326+00:002015-03-19T20:04:05.326+00:00Merriam-Webster, Inc. Merriam-Webster's Dictio...Merriam-Webster, Inc. Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of English Usage, 1994. ISBN 0-87779-132-5. pp. 21–22:<br />acronyms A number of commentators (as Copperud 1970, Janis 1984, Howard 1984) believe that acronyms can be differentiated from other abbreviations in being pronounceable as words. Dictionaries, however, do not make this distinction because writers in general do not:<br />"The powder metallurgy industry has officially adopted the acronym 'P/M Parts'"—Precision Metal Molding, January 1966.<br />"Users of the term acronym make no distinction between those pronounced as words ... and those pronounced as a series of characters" —Jean Praninskas, Trade Name Creation, 1968.<br />"It is not J.C.B.'s fault that its name, let alone its acronym, is not a household word among European scholars"—Times Literary Supp. 5 February 1970.<br />"... the confusion in the Pentagon about abbreviations and acronyms—words formed from the first letters of other words"—Bernard Weinraub, N.Y. Times, 11 December 1978.<br />Pyles & Algeo 1970 divide acronyms into "initialisms", which consists of initial letters pronounced with the letter names, and "word acronyms", which are pronounced as words. Initialism, an older word than acronym, seems to be too little known to the general public to serve as the customary term standing in contrast with acronym in a narrow sense.Jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01123244020588707776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-26648625665147471512015-03-19T18:21:59.903+00:002015-03-19T18:21:59.903+00:00Can't believe I'm the first. But... BGW is...Can't believe I'm the first. But... BGW isn't an acronym. An acronym has to form a word by taking the initial letters of a group of words e.g. Laser or scuba. Try pronouncing BGW (except maybe in Welsh?).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com