tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post2004458016038480511..comments2024-03-19T10:57:44.760+00:00Comments on The IPKat: A possible way for a non-EU UK to participate in the Unitary Patent and Unified Patent Court?Verónica Rodríguez Arguijohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05763207846940036921noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-52398897862103354602016-07-04T15:45:15.256+01:002016-07-04T15:45:15.256+01:00I cannot help but notice that MaxDrei starts (as u...I cannot help but notice that MaxDrei starts (as usual) in error...<br /><br />"<i>Just as the USA supposes that, in time, the rest of the world must surely come round to the American view</i>"<br /><br />That is NOT what is "supposed in the USA."<br /><br />The "ugly American" syndrome is NOT that we think that the rest of the world must surely come round, it is EITHER that we (the royal we) just DON"T CARE that the rest of the world 'must come round,' OR we presume that the rest of the world <i>has already come round</i>, so that any 'caring' is moot (with the dismissive attitude and opposite of one of concern for ROW).<br /><br />The "ugly American" really does not give on whit whether or not "you all" come around - "we are the best" and "we will continue to be the best" whether you bother to "come round" or not. If you don't, "meh, so what?"<br /><br />As to the rest of your post concerning internecine "politics," that speaks AGAINST the view of a "one Europe" far more than the exit vote of the UK. I do have to wonder though if you recognize that.... THE US anonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-91478380130673538662016-07-03T21:02:14.987+01:002016-07-03T21:02:14.987+01:00OK, since that last comment mentions my name, I...OK, since that last comment mentions my name, I'll have another pop.<br /><br />Just as the USA supposes that, in time, the rest of the world must surely come round to the American view, so Germany supposes that, given time, the rest of the EU must surely come round to the German view. The tragedy of the BREXIT is that the only EU MS with the capacity to disabuse Germany of its misapprehensions is the UK.<br /><br />Consider the Euro. Imposed on Germany by France. Never was there a better example of the Law of Unintended Consequences. But if the UK had been in there scrapping, the bonkers Euro would never have seen the light of day.<br /><br />With no Euro, the DM would have been twice as high, and German goods twice as expensive. Instead of German wines selling all round the world like hot cakes, the world would instead have been buying quality wines from Spain, Italy and Greece at much more favourable prices. Skilled workers in those countries would still be there, instead of flocking to Germany just to get a job. Instead of unemployment being 50% in the Southern States and zero in Germany, it would have been much more evenly distributed throughout the Union.<br /><br />Does any German politician tell this to the electorate in Germany. Of course not. Instead, they let Germans think they are the only hard-working people in Europe.<br /><br />Here is a link to an item in a British newspaper that reminds us how fragile is the link these days, between the facts and how people vote.<br /><br />Germany craves UK engagement, if only to bring French head in the clouds unworldliness down to Earth. Has anybody noticed though, how similar Theresa May is to Angela Merkel. Both daughters of vicars. Both stay silent until they are obliged to speak. Being an optimist, I wonder whether those two, after September, can stitch together something sensible.<br /><br />https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/jul/03/facebook-bubble-brexit-filter<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />MaxDreinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-33874030002620972172016-07-03T13:58:07.407+01:002016-07-03T13:58:07.407+01:00Re MaxDrei, privately but it is not what the polit...Re MaxDrei, privately but it is not what the politicians are saying -many French, and other nationalities such as the Danes, the Swedes want the UK to stay. Above all so do the Greeks (desperately in the case of the latter and they have long memories). As no one wants an EU dominated by one particular MS. In my time working within the circles of the EU, even now there was only ever opprobrium reserved for one MS and it was not ever the British. In fact, despite what on is led to believe in its general culture, the British did not indulge in that (gentillesse of the victor).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-34734261169242119562016-07-03T13:48:58.959+01:002016-07-03T13:48:58.959+01:00At the time, (in 2004) most other MS thought the U...At the time, (in 2004) most other MS thought the UK government's decision to allow free movement unhindered from 1 April 2004 was a mistake. France, Germany etc all said that their communities were not ready to cope. Both the UK and Ireland applied it from the start -remember when the Irish economy was a tiger before the EU had to bail it out as part of their own second referendum deal? In 2008, Ireland rejected the Lisbon Treaty (not quite the same) and agreed to vote again.It took more than a year for Ireland to vote again and when it did it was in the heart of a recession and said yes.<br /><br />Ireland was also hard hit by the immediate application of free movement from the 2004 accession MS but many left again when the Irish economy fell. As did many Irish.However, there were always subtle differences, in that Ireland is a Catholic country and its churches got a shot in the arm from the migration of Poles. Plus the Irish middle class a long time ago made the Irish language part of the legal order and learning Irish part of the curriculum in the better schools and a passport to better jobs (as in it is a requirement). This acts as a sort of legitimate barrier to integration or employment in better jobs. In other words, they can ask that a job applicant have Irish although they never use it as a language.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-19817288844132992572016-07-03T10:40:04.605+01:002016-07-03T10:40:04.605+01:00In answer to The Pigs, economics is not my profess...In answer to The Pigs, economics is not my profession: I just read a newspaper online. The Paper published by the IMF research dept was downloadable via a Link. I failed to save the Link.<br /><br />The Paper concludes that the negative effects of free movement are serious, in that they are not short-lived but instead are long-lasting enough to affect generations of people. Until now economists have not taken these downside consequences into account, because they haven't been able to measure them, to ascribe numbers to them.<br /><br />I think that is because, until now, they have not bothered to find a way to measure them. perhaps they will now. Better late than never.<br /><br />Germany and France imposed a 7 year feeeze on Poles wanting to work in their countries, after Poland acceded to the EU. Did the UK Civil Service think of doing that? Yes! Did the UK Government do it? No! I suppose it thought that England could do with all the lean and fit, trained and qualified, hard-working employees from wherever it could find them. And straightaway too. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-53897933953699913012016-07-02T12:35:43.385+01:002016-07-02T12:35:43.385+01:00Anonymous at 14:42,
Do you have a link to this &q...Anonymous at 14:42,<br /><br />Do you have a link to this "<i>However, the economic research unit of the IMF has just published a Paper that declares that globalisation and neo-liberal economics does more harm than good.</i>"...?The Pigsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-33041532482305883482016-06-30T16:09:00.428+01:002016-06-30T16:09:00.428+01:00You may be interested in this speech, delivered ye...You may be interested in this speech, delivered yesterday: <br /><br />"Baroness Neville-Rolfe addresses the British group of the Union of European Practitioners in Intellectual Property":<br /><br />https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/national-and-international-level-concerns-and-developments-regarding-the-ip-landscape<br /><br />"I know that many of you will be particularly concerned about the potential implications of the Referendum result for the Unitary Patent and the Unified Patent Court. Again, I am afraid that there is not much I can say at this stage. As you will know, we will have a new Prime Minister in early September who will need to take key decisions on our overall approach to negotiations on trade with the EU."<br /><br />pro.saicnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-80992890495230751482016-06-30T14:42:02.674+01:002016-06-30T14:42:02.674+01:00I hear now that when the countries of Eastern Euro...I hear now that when the countries of Eastern Europe (Poland et al) joined the EU, Germany and France put in place measures to stop their populations migrating to Germany and France to do all the jobs that the locals could not or would not do, but the UK Government did not, for the very good reason that the UK Government and its ex-Public School advisers thought that these skilled and trained and hard-working people were essential to keep them in the manner to which they had long been accustomed.<br /><br />However, the economic research unit of the IMF has just published a Paper that declares that globalisation and neo-liberal economics does more harm than good. Because it destroys society. In that, it agrees with the verdict of 52% of those who voted in the Referendum. The elimination of all restraints on the free international movement of capital and labour is what Globalisation is all about, and the EU too. It allows the rich to get richer and condemns to poor to get poorer. No wonder 52% voted against it.<br /><br />Those who are still seeking to remove restraints to the Single Market are out of touch with a majority of the voters and the IMF researchers.<br /><br />I'm optimistic. I think neo-liberal economics has had its day. I look forward to gradual economic reforms at EU level, and the UK staying an EU Member, nominally. For the indefinite future, we shall see an "empty chair" for whoever is the UK delegate at any particular EU Meeting. So what's new?<br /><br />Most amusing is the correspondent who writes of a "deal" between England and the EU. A "deal" suggests that both sides have bargaining chips. As far as I can see though, England has none. Anybody who thinks it does is deluding himself. The permanent empty chair will function as a standing reminder to the remaining 27 of the need to reach a fair, pragmatic and efficient agreement. This above all is what the EU needs. Bravo!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-48736945303735980622016-06-30T13:36:48.853+01:002016-06-30T13:36:48.853+01:00Thanks mo.saic. The transcript is interesting to ...Thanks mo.saic. The transcript is interesting to read, but I don't come to the same conclusion as you at all.<br /><br />Mr Vaizey says that in case of Brexit we would need the EU's consent to stay in the UPC and that that might not happen. He gives no implication that the current UK government does not want to be part of the system in those circumstances, only that it will be a matter for the future Government.<br /><br />I think the part of the debate that precedes this section is harder to interpret <br /><br />Viaizey:"I have something that Brexit Ministers cannot see—a brief about the impact of the referendum. It says absolutely nothing, really, so I do not know what people are getting so worked up about. The briefing seems to me to be completely meaningless, so let me busk it. I do not want to get into trouble with the Mayor of London or anyone else, but if we left Europe as a result of the referendum, I suspect it would be a decision for the UK Government whether they wanted to rejoin the European patent court. Of course, we would have to rely on our European partners to decide whether the UK could be a member.<br /><br /> Mr Ronnie Campbell (Blyth Valley) (Lab): They will<br /><br />Mr Vaizey: I hear from the Opposition Benches that the deal has already been done, but I will leave it up to hon. Members to decide on the validity of that remark<br /><br /><br />The then Mayor of London and Ronnie Campbell were both part of the Vote Leave coalition though it now looks like neither of them will have much influence on the government's decisions.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-78901235002485195992016-06-30T10:04:05.113+01:002016-06-30T10:04:05.113+01:00It might be worthwhile quoting from the Commons de...It might be worthwhile quoting from the Commons debate on the Draft Patents Order 2016 on 1 March 2016, where also the consequences of a vote pro "Brexit" for British UPCA membership were discussed:<br /><br />Kevin Brennan: “There was reference in the Library briefing to a blog from Bristows, the starting point of which is that it will not be possible for a non-EU member state to take part in the proposed unified patent court regime. I presume that, if that is the case, we would not be able to apply to be part of it, and British business and UK plc would lose the benefit of being able to register a single patent.”<br /><br />The government answer was pretty clear:<br /><br />Edward Vaizey: “I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his clarification on that point. I think that that was sort of what I was saying: clearly, were we to leave the European Union, we would no longer be members of the unified patent court. It would then be a matter for the UK Government to ask the European Union whether we could be a member, if we thought that was a good thing. I suspect the European Union would have something to say about that. For people whose lives are dominated by thoughts of having a European patent, it would be a bad thing if we were not a member of the European Union. I hope that that is clear.”<br /><br />To me, this sounds pretty much like there will be no UPCA ratification. Of course, a different government might take a different approach on this. But for the time being, said statement stands.<br />mo.saicnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-32613642813337490132016-06-30T07:12:50.865+01:002016-06-30T07:12:50.865+01:00It is highly irresponsible and opportunistic to co...It is highly irresponsible and opportunistic to come up with such a unrealistic proposal. This once again amounts to pure lobbyism from the patent profession. The whole system is moreover not worth saving it. It's whole architecture is full of deficiencies and the system is intrinsically unattractive for SMEs contrary to what is propagated by the Commission and the EPO.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-49391812483391419682016-06-30T02:34:09.484+01:002016-06-30T02:34:09.484+01:00How interesting - I asked for some similar input o...How interesting - I asked for some similar input over at the US blog Patently-O and only received a short "blow-off" from MaxDrei.<br /><br />Looks like this is FAR more complicated than I was led to believe.THE US anonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-55499132487103250772016-06-29T19:42:57.023+01:002016-06-29T19:42:57.023+01:00The other European London is roughly half way betw...The other European London is roughly half way between Châlon-sur-Saône and Lons-le-Saunier.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-22065522677523347652016-06-29T18:06:29.096+01:002016-06-29T18:06:29.096+01:00I agree with Simon Taor
It should happen if its p...I agree with Simon Taor<br /><br />It should happen if its possible, though it may be an unfortunate distance down the UK and EU's list of priorities.<br /><br />I never expected to quote Boris Johnson but I'm going to:<br /><br />"There will still be intense and intensifying European cooperation and partnership in a huge number of fields: the arts, the sciences, the universities, and on improving the environment"<br /><br />I think even most brexiters accept that to some degree, and accept that there are some areas where we should abide by common international rules. Where they may disagree with remainers is in relation to extent to which that it is done. <br /><br />Patent law is an area where that UK has already decided to go for an international approach. If the UK wanted to make its own patent laws it would need to leave the EPOrg/EPC. It makes sense for patent enforcement to also be international, hence an earlier attempt to do this (the EPLA) which had nothing to do with the EU. If the EPLA was still on the table I don't expect that many people would suggest that it should be abandoned because of the referendum result, and the UPCA is not so different conceptually (even if it is legally).<br /><br />The suggestion above that UK ratification would cause a big fuss domestically seem far-fetched to me. Sadly patent law is rarely that newsworthy let alone the mechanism by which it is delivered. <br /><br />I'm also unconvinced by the notion that: "advocating that the UK should nevertheless ratify an agreement which would connect it with the EU does not appear to be appropriate"<br /><br />Whilst the UK remains in the EU there will be plenty of new EU regulations on which UK approval will be sought, and can take effect in the UK. A situation in which we vote against or veto every new law for X number of years into the future seems untenable to me. If the UK does continue to vote through EU laws then ratifying an intergovernmental agreement on the basis that it is possible to amend it down line to work post-Brexit seems uncontroversial.Russell Bartonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-57645796784909394092016-06-29T15:29:11.841+01:002016-06-29T15:29:11.841+01:00Michael, “shouldn’t happen”? I accept that it won’...Michael, “shouldn’t happen”? I accept that it won’t happen without a lot of changes and compromise, but I think we must be careful not to draw too many conclusions regarding the “spirit” of the referendum result –especially since the UK is inevitably going to end up with some sort of agreement with the EU (be it EEA or some newly made up acronym). <br /><br />The 52% who voted Leave did so for a host of different reasons, none of which related to IP rights. I would find it hard to believe that even the most ardent Brexitter would have too much of an issue regarding the concept of pan-European IP rights. That said, as pointed out above, the UK and the EU have much bigger fish to fry that worrying about IP, so while I am hopeful for a sensible solution, I am not expecting one any time soon.<br /><br />(Hi, by the way)<br />Simon Taornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-58243864531606923922016-06-29T15:13:47.848+01:002016-06-29T15:13:47.848+01:00Almost too easy!
Why not simply find or make anot...Almost too easy!<br /><br />Why not simply find or make another place called “London” within the remaining EU Member States?<br /><br />Mind you, there are already seven or eight place named “London” around this planet (most of them in the US) – unfortunately, none of them would qualify.<br /><br />Thus, renaming would be the easiest option.<br />For example, the city of “Chemnitz” in DE was renamed to “Karl-Marx-Stadt” and then back to “Chemnitz”.<br />UA renamed and is renaming hundreds of towns.<br />Even GB has, in response to fallout, renamed a lovely place by the sea in the North…<br /><br />So, which place wants to be renamed to “London”?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-14374896359948714662016-06-29T14:45:35.172+01:002016-06-29T14:45:35.172+01:00Before even bothering to try to wrap my mind aroun...Before even bothering to try to wrap my mind around the legal complexities involved here, I'll just say something: it is politically impossible. No British Parliament is going to ratify yet another European agreement, in the current mayhem, with MPs throwing things at each other and both parties effectively leaderless. And even when they regain some appearance of calm (if they ever do), they'll have to deal with a lot many far more pressing concerns than the UPCA: not just trade, but also the millions of EU citizens in Britain and Britain citizens in the EU, their access to benefits and healthcare, and their pensions.<br /><br />Not to mention the fact that this vote has whetted the appetite of quite a few other populists across the continent who dream to wreck the whole European project.<br /><br />So, and I say this as somebody who has himself invested also quite a lot of time and effort in preparing for the UPC: Forget it. It's over. This parrot is dead. It's an ex-parrot. I hope that, some time in the future, maybe in less than yet another forty years, there'll be a unified European (or EU) patent system. Maybe even, without the Cameron team's fear of the CJEU, it will have a simpler, more rational legal structure than the UPC came to have. But for the moment, I'll be happy if the EU still exists by 2020.Where can I get a work visa for the US?noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-79715949674894804122016-06-29T14:38:32.111+01:002016-06-29T14:38:32.111+01:00Keep calm
amend art 7(2) ("London" ->...Keep calm<br />amend art 7(2) ("London" -> "Milan")<br />and<br />carry onI'm a robotnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-70869575509262387532016-06-29T14:09:06.019+01:002016-06-29T14:09:06.019+01:00We're out get over it. Devote your considerabl...We're out get over it. Devote your considerable intellects to making a success of our country. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-77049068970481045292016-06-29T13:30:42.432+01:002016-06-29T13:30:42.432+01:00Professor Tilmann's paper is certainly interes...Professor Tilmann's paper is certainly interesting and he may (or may not) be correct in his proposition that the UK can be part of the UP and UPC.<br /><br />However, as already stated, even if this could happen it should not happen.<br /><br />I suspect that even staunch supporters of Remain (including myself) would agree that a problem with the EU is that it has (by stealth?) over the years moved from an economic union towards a political union. Consequently I assume that many Remainers object to laws originating from the EU Commission having effect in the UK and even they would agree that we are perfectly capable of making our own laws in the UK and don't need the EU to do it for us.<br /><br />Since it is the courts who enforce the law and since the UP and UPC dictate which courts have jurisdiction it would be diametrically opposed to the spirit of the Referendum result to give courts in mainland EU countries jurisdiction over patent matters in the UK.<br /><br />However much we as a profession (both in the UK and the rest of the EU) would like the UP/C to be effective in the UK, we should face up to the fact that it shouldn't happen.Michael Jaegerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13791101253548599076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-66380987722742995052016-06-29T13:23:06.285+01:002016-06-29T13:23:06.285+01:00The best way to make patenting cheaper in Europe w...The best way to make patenting cheaper in Europe would be to restict the annual fees.<br />This could easily be decided by the council for the EPO, or countries could decide for themselves to follow the US or NZ and only collect fees three times during the life of a patent. <br />But that would cost money for the local PTOs, so it's highly unlikely that such an approach would be taken. <br /><br />In comparison to the annual fees translation costs are not worth mentioning, but a good translation actually helps people not fluent in English (and/or German and/or French) to understand what is disclosed and claimed.<br />WJFnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-79718520777782909802016-06-29T11:47:33.470+01:002016-06-29T11:47:33.470+01:00Gilman
the bitter comments and threats of recrimin...Gilman<br />the bitter comments and threats of recrimination are coming from the 'remain' supporters, the EU institution and its leader and inhabitants.<br /><br />In response to such anti-British xenophobia, you pray for a democratic decision to be reversed.<br /><br />Such perverse logic is unfortunately prevalent this week.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-64855607778010686452016-06-29T11:30:18.101+01:002016-06-29T11:30:18.101+01:00Just had a flick through the UPCA and it strikes m...Just had a flick through the UPCA and it strikes me as rather clear that amending the UPCA to enable a Non-MS-UK to be part of the UPC would be anything but a simple task. For example:<br /><br />Art. 1: ..."The Unified Patent Court shall be a court common to the Contracting Member States and thus subject to --> the same obligations under Union law as any national court of the Contracting Member State <--- " (emphasis added).<br /><br />Art. 5: Contractual liability of the court is largely governed by EU regulations<br /><br />Art. 23: Reference to Art. 258, 259 and 260 TFEU<br /><br />Art. 31: International jurisdiction to be established in accordance with Regulation 1215/2015 or the Lugano convention <br /><br />Also, I note that whether or not the UPC will go live as planned in 2017 not only depends on whether the UK ratifies, but also on France's and Germany's ratification. Why should those two burden the already complicated Brexit-negotiations with additional issues and potentially give the UK extra leverage?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-11921441525967802982016-06-29T11:02:14.065+01:002016-06-29T11:02:14.065+01:00Can we stop using the term 'Brexit'. Brit...Can we stop using the term 'Brexit'. Britain is not a country.Mr Shinenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-60851978663284701642016-06-29T10:57:47.711+01:002016-06-29T10:57:47.711+01:00It says something about this referendum that even ...It says something about this referendum that even the comments below an entirely theoretical post about patent law are bitter and recrimination-filled.<br /><br />The past week has been very, very depressing. This excellent piece of straw-grabbing is of a piece with it.<br /><br />In the end, the best we can hope for is that somehow Brexit is avoided. For that to happen the negative consequences of Brexit need to come thick and fast enough that people's minds are changed before Art. 50 is invoked and it becomes basically unavoidable. Gilman Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06607416440240634159noreply@blogger.com