tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post2624181036631017151..comments2024-03-28T16:45:51.051+00:00Comments on The IPKat: Apple v Samsung: Galaxy hit by astronomical damages as jurors show they "understand"Verónica Rodríguez Arguijohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05763207846940036921noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-22198561799496924922012-09-04T13:40:56.862+01:002012-09-04T13:40:56.862+01:00The arguement is not that these matters are too co...The arguement is not that these matters are too complex for a lay jury, the question is how did a jury decide on infringement of numerous IP rights and the level of damages as a result in a mere 2 days after 3 weeks of arguement? Not even the quickest legal mind could do that....but anyone's gut, of course, could. Merpelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-3974663482420835102012-09-03T15:18:29.296+01:002012-09-03T15:18:29.296+01:00'Merpel listened as the AmeriKat recounted the...'Merpel listened as the AmeriKat recounted the valiant attempt of Judge Rader to defend the jury system in patent cases in the face of some trade mark provocation by Sir Robin. Judge Rader, who has tried "as many patent jury trials as anyone", argued that juries "do as well as judges" and, when interviewed afterwards, explained that the juries showed that "they do understand complex technology". But, asked the AmeriKat, do they understand complex technology and damages calculations?'<br /><br />This to me reads like the old 'appeal to authority' logical fallacy: 'this subject is too complicated for ordinary people, so it is best left to us, the experts'.<br /><br />The following quote is instructive:<br /><br />“If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: it's all balls.”<br /> <br />— Spitfire designer R. J. Mitchell, advice given about his engineering staff to test pilot Jeffrey Quill during prototype trials.<br /><br /><br /><br />He is of course absolutely right. Ultimately, all law is founded upon straightforward philosophical principles, and property is 90% of the law. If an intelligent and educated lay person cannot understand the concept of property, even when it is somewhat occluded as with intellectual property, then the legal argument being presented is probably an ass.<br /><br />Paul Ellisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-80722488698353016862012-08-31T10:21:17.543+01:002012-08-31T10:21:17.543+01:00After reading an interview given by the jury forem...After reading an interview given by the jury foreman, I am reminded that "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-47004984877985113072012-08-30T08:30:24.434+01:002012-08-30T08:30:24.434+01:00If the layman jury is so bad at calculating damage...If the layman jury is so bad at calculating damages, one would expect an expert Kat in this field to provide some evidence that this number is totally unreasonable. So far, there are no indications that the jury awarded damages are unreasonable given the size of the market and the market share of the Samsung products.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-66741588177552693772012-08-30T07:31:49.381+01:002012-08-30T07:31:49.381+01:00And then there's this: http://intellectualip.c...And then there's this: http://intellectualip.com/2012/08/29/apple-v-samsung-and-awards-of-defendants-profits-the-potentially-for-overcompensatory-damages-in-design-patent-infringement-cases/<br /><br />It appears to be a strange anomoly of the US system (surprise, surprise) that a plaintiff is not entitled to request an account of profits in respect of utility patent infringement, but is statutorily entitled to an account of the entire profit made in the event of design patent infringement.<br /><br />This explains the observation I made on my own blog earlier this week, before I read the above article, that the damages awarded for design/trade dress infringement seemed disproportionately high compared with the damages awarded on devices where there was only utility patent infringement found (see http://blog.patentology.com.au/2012/08/billion-dollar-jury-verdict-blow-to.html)<br /><br />And once you know this, it is easier to find the relevant jury instruction - no. 54 on page 72 - and quite possible to conclude that the jurors did exactly as they were instructed.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06157794228297387928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-53332595324498681762012-08-30T07:27:45.447+01:002012-08-30T07:27:45.447+01:00As the previous comment states, some, including th...As the previous comment states, some, including the head juror, have spoken out. Quoted in The Guardian, he says many were unsure of procedure. They were also swayed in particular by the minutes of meetings where, what has been termed in the UK 'winking at' Apple's technology was discussed by Samsung. Probably a natural jury reaction but it does it equate to infringement ?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-83004739884111813312012-08-29T08:11:27.066+01:002012-08-29T08:11:27.066+01:00Some of the Jurors were interviewed after the deci...Some of the Jurors were interviewed after the decision. One of them stated that the level of costs awarded was made sufficiently high to "punish" Samsung. Doesn't sound like the jury really grasped the idea that the damages were to compensate for lost profits.Skeptikalnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-30146985752682019012012-08-28T23:42:49.150+01:002012-08-28T23:42:49.150+01:00Dear Anon at 6:51
California is a lot further wes...Dear Anon at 6:51<br /><br />California is a lot further west than the Eastern District of Texas....<br /><br />Looks like California is competing with the Eastern District for patent tourism litigation...<br /><br />Bidding now starts at a billion USD.<br /><br />Plus you get jurors who are so knowledgeable about patents and high tech that they don't even need to read the judge's instructions or review evidence to get to a speedy and just verdict....<br /><br />Very efficient....Uncle Wiggilynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-74767498637717566782012-08-28T18:51:21.195+01:002012-08-28T18:51:21.195+01:00During a presentation by a US patent attorney last...During a presentation by a US patent attorney last year it was observed that the further West you go, the more likely the jury are to find in favour of a US litigant. It would therefore have been surprising had the verdict gone the other way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-40954508888491255492012-08-28T13:56:12.315+01:002012-08-28T13:56:12.315+01:00Thank goodness for Merpel. she is only saying what...Thank goodness for Merpel. she is only saying what many of are thinking. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-35638598553400948032012-08-28T13:25:29.944+01:002012-08-28T13:25:29.944+01:00It is laughably cynical to suggest that the Americ...It is laughably cynical to suggest that the American <i>populace</i> has been "indoctrinated" into buying Apple products over Korean-made ones. It's a market. Remember that vast trade deficit that the US runs with Asia? It arises because Americans overwhelmingly prefer the price-value point of goods made in Asia to that of those made at home. Just as do Britons.<br /><br />I expected better from the IPKat than a lazy characterisation of American consumers (or jurors) as mindless nationalists.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-70276120821811755512012-08-28T09:28:10.917+01:002012-08-28T09:28:10.917+01:00Well the 'market' came to a different figu...Well the 'market' came to a different figure - shares in Samsung Electronics fell by more than 7 percent Monday morning, wiping nearly $12 billion off Samsung’s market value.atBenhttp://www.musiclawupdates.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-88158592331087091012012-08-28T00:35:47.956+01:002012-08-28T00:35:47.956+01:00My rant, more elegantly expressed: https://www.eff...My rant, more elegantly expressed: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/08/apple-v-samsung-what-does-1-billion-verdict-really-meanGentoohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05063939954837162413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-18442308666701766202012-08-28T00:33:19.584+01:002012-08-28T00:33:19.584+01:00When the case is eventually decided in Apple’s fav...When the case is eventually decided in Apple’s favour by the CAFC (would anyone seriously bet otherwise, given that it’s the CAFC?) and Chief Justice Rader writes the unanimous decision focusing on the design patent, trademark and trade dress claims regarding rectangles with rounded corners, perhaps he will try to outdo the legendary literary leaps of his brethren Judges Posner and Kozinski on those “other” appellate courts and, with a great flourish, call his judgment:<br /><br />“Raider of the Last Arc”<br /><br />Just an idea…<br /><br />HansHans Sachsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-21573945163540457002012-08-28T00:28:54.974+01:002012-08-28T00:28:54.974+01:00So who is benefiting here?
This has been litigate...So who is benefiting here?<br /><br />This has been litigated in South Korea, (to their credit, a great result: whatever is Korean legalese for why don't you both drop dead?) the UK and California. <br /><br />That's a lot of lawyers, a lot of lawyers fees, a lot of Court costs, a lot of expert witness fees and so on and so forth.<br /><br />The eventual winner will attempt to take monopoly rent from the market, the eventual loser will do a combination of attempt to recover costs from its customers and sack a few workers.<br /><br />And what's in the mix? rounded corners, software that emulates a ball rebounding off a wall, the metaphor for a toilet door lock? <br /><br />Whatever. Is this innovation? Is this what the legal system is supposed to be all about?<br /><br /><br />Nothing comes of nothing, neatly illustrated here:<br /><br />http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/kirby_ferguson_embrace_the_remix.html<br /><br />Meanwhile, having failed to get software patents through the front door in Europe, lobbyists are now trying to do it through the administrative tidying exercise "unitary patents"<br /><br />The quality of the political debate is best described by analogy: the LibDem representative arguing that because something was in all three manifestos everyone voted for it...<br /><br />Never mind democracy, what actually happens is described here:<br /><br />http://www.iea.org.uk/publications/research/public-choice-a-primerGentoohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05063939954837162413noreply@blogger.com