tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post6569482850317033976..comments2024-03-18T17:10:35.838+00:00Comments on The IPKat: A woman's place ... is in the lead: thoughts on an upcoming IP ForumVerónica Rodríguez Arguijohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05763207846940036921noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-16651136369455918282015-03-04T10:00:55.325+00:002015-03-04T10:00:55.325+00:00If more people nodded when the man spoke then that...If more people nodded when the man spoke then that suggests their opinion was considered more valuable in the examples tested.<br /><br />The reasons for that could be many.<br /><br />So, what you are saying is that when a women speaks, irrespective of the quality of her contribution it should be given equal weight to a more valuable contribution of another irrespective of their sex.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-47380103189511620592015-03-04T09:07:35.433+00:002015-03-04T09:07:35.433+00:00Anonymous at 13:04:
The advantage of a women-domin...Anonymous at 13:04:<br />The advantage of a women-dominated club (there was no mention of men not being able to attend the MIP seminar so it wasn't a "women-only club") is that it might provide a forum in which women are more likely to be heard.<br />There are studies that show that if a woman contributes 50% of a conversation, she is seen by both men and women as dominating that conversation. It seems thus in their interest to keep quiet so as not to be seen as overbearing. At the MIP seminar in question, a study was referred to that found that a male presenter will have more of the audience nod in agreement with him than a female presenter will.<br />The playing field is not level. If you're playing uphill, it is perhaps useful to have more supporters shouting from the sidelines if you want to improve your chance of scoring as many goals. A women-dominated seminar or club is aimed at providing just those supporters.Cassandranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-48287311579624145572015-01-26T14:15:19.180+00:002015-01-26T14:15:19.180+00:00Anonymous @ 13:04,
I think the view that you beli...Anonymous @ 13:04,<br /><br />I think the view that you believe in - while noble - is just as pollyanna as thinking that human nature does not partake in sexist or racist or less-than-noble pursuits.<br /><br />It just is not so.<br /><br />While we purport to be - and strive to be - noble and virtuous, we cannot remove that which is truly our nature.<br /><br />One only has to look around at the real world. Look at what <b>remains</b> as tools of advertising and business and politics:<br /><br />sex and violence<br /><br />Not just in video games and the most visited web sites (shoot-em up and porn); but look at ISIS and tactics of abduction and beheadings.<br /><br />THIS then is the real world.<br /><br />There is nothing wrong - per se - with a "woman only"group. Such can develop and add a meaningful view to the <i>overall</i> discussion. But I think I do see a point in your comment: such groups are not the sum total answer to the problem of sexism and in a very real sense can propagate the very problems the group is formed to address.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-28148948105537070562015-01-26T13:04:40.485+00:002015-01-26T13:04:40.485+00:00Doesn't all of the rather vitriolic argument a...Doesn't all of the rather vitriolic argument above rather miss the point? Whether or not women are being held back by sexism (I do not express a view), how can this possibly be overcome by setting up a women-only club? <br /><br />Won't the issue only be overcome by addressing things in the real-world, mixed environment?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-40528246505346767002015-01-26T08:07:17.752+00:002015-01-26T08:07:17.752+00:00@Meldrew, The distal end of male members is of cou...@Meldrew, The distal end of male members is of course proximate from the female members perspective.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-67273660961226204922015-01-20T17:07:15.975+00:002015-01-20T17:07:15.975+00:00What with so many Page 3 models coming on to the m...What with so many Page 3 models coming on to the market the patent profession should be looking to snap up these future leaders to even up the numbers?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-56078686117762858482015-01-20T16:51:27.920+00:002015-01-20T16:51:27.920+00:00I wouldn't say men feel threatened. It is much...I wouldn't say men feel threatened. It is much more simple. They are annoyed by the nonsense of positive discrimination. Fell free to criticise such men for being dinosaurs, frothing at the mouth etc, it doesn't change the facts. I suggest all those on high horses (i.e. sucking up to their new female masters (just like Thatchers cabinet? She was such an admirable motherly woman): discrimination is discrimination is discrimination.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-15623958603394170532015-01-20T15:29:19.133+00:002015-01-20T15:29:19.133+00:00See https://www.academia.edu/2399678/Masculinism_a...See https://www.academia.edu/2399678/Masculinism_and_the_Antifeminist_Countermovement, for an interesting view that men are in crisis due to feminisation of society. I suppose men may feel threatened by a perceived change in their status.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-51051068689117699662015-01-20T14:57:09.354+00:002015-01-20T14:57:09.354+00:00Another snappy response fell foul to the IT behind...<i>Another snappy response fell foul to the IT behind blogger. Here is a delayed response:-</i><br><br />Anonymous at 12:53 and probably 12:56,<br><br />Abuse again. You might want to wipe your mouth, you are frothing.<br><br />As for being hypocritical, no one would suspect you of being a feminist. <br><br />It is clear that you are unable to distinguish between the concepts of possibility and probability. Perhaps <a href="%E2%80%9D" rel="nofollow">this</a> will help. <br />Please note the last line of my previous post, which makes your point that sexism can run either way.Meldrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09841440718012449720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-61208308679257737552015-01-20T14:11:49.109+00:002015-01-20T14:11:49.109+00:00@Merpel - I'd certainly not want to end up stu...@Merpel - I'd certainly not want to end up stuck in a room with most of the commenters on this thread, and I'm a man!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-54105660463731464812015-01-20T14:00:55.767+00:002015-01-20T14:00:55.767+00:00... and CIPA wonders why it is irrelevant in a mod...... and CIPA wonders why it is irrelevant in a modern World?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-6883814985535825892015-01-20T13:03:18.868+00:002015-01-20T13:03:18.868+00:00...and: As I disagree with you I must be sexist?
......and: As I disagree with you I must be sexist?<br /><br />You appear to believe it is fine and dandy ad democratic for women to self-promote and push their agenda and use discrimination to further themselves, but it not okay for a male (a word you would use as shorthand for male chauvinist sexist Neanderthal pig, no doubt) to challenge that discrimination as unacceptable.<br /><br />Enjoy your vol-au-vents, if they (evil race of women) save you some. I'd love to join you but I have my misogynists anonymous class to attend. Toodle pip old chap. Meet you at the rugger, what.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-37429279813122892902015-01-20T12:56:23.597+00:002015-01-20T12:56:23.597+00:00...and "It only takes a few people voting for......and "It only takes a few people voting for the “wrong” reasons to tip a balanced election into an unbalanced outcome."<br /><br />Are you suggesting the female members didn't vote for the wrong reasons too? Are you suggesting that this would never happen? It would never be the case that females formed self-interest groups to climb their way to power? It would never be the case that MIP would run women-only event, which would be hypocritical and sexist?<br /><br />No? Good.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-10762151556454982342015-01-20T12:53:08.634+00:002015-01-20T12:53:08.634+00:00Am I happy to admit "Are you not prepared to ...Am I happy to admit "Are you not prepared to admit the possibility that some Fellows might be sexist, and that the proportion that were sexist then might be higher than the proportion who are sexist now? "?<br /><br />Hell yes.<br /><br />Are you happy to admit that the shooting of JFK, JR and John Lennon were possibly CIA plots?<br /><br />Are you happy to admit that the Queen s possibly Russian spy?<br /><br />Are you happy to admit that just possibly when reasons are postulated for an act, that there should possibly be some degree if evidence backing them up?<br /><br />If not, you are a hypocrite. If yes then you now agree with me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-53545574637758047232015-01-20T12:50:01.253+00:002015-01-20T12:50:01.253+00:00Whilst IPKat is providing a platform for this issu...Whilst IPKat is providing a platform for this issue, I'd like to point out the tremendous contribution that feminism has made to academic and social sciences. Feminism provides new perspectives in understanding power, deconstruction, literary theory, post-structuralism and our own biology and its role in defining us. My favourite writer in the field is Julia Kristeva.<br /><br />I thought it would be a shame if these positive aspects of feminism were not mentioned as part of the thread.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-6442728526446792432015-01-20T12:27:17.345+00:002015-01-20T12:27:17.345+00:00Anonymous at 08:49
If we are descending to abuse, ...Anonymous at 08:49<br />If we are descending to abuse, downright pathetic, tiresome and <b>blinkered</b> describes your comments. <br><br />The phrase "<i>possibly sexism among the Membership prevented it</i>" has been isolated from the context that “<i><b>had not a contested Presidential election</b> and possibly sexism <b>among</b> the Membership prevented it</i>” we might have had a female President sooner. <br><br />Are you not prepared to admit the <i><b>possibility</b></i> that some Fellows might be sexist, and that the proportion that were sexist then might be higher than the proportion who are sexist now? <br><br />A contested Presidential election was the direct cause of said Presidential candidate not becoming President and that was admirably democratic. To say that sexism may have had something to do with the result is simply an observation. <br><br />Another observation is that sexism may also have affected the contest: was it a coincidence that the election in question was (I seem to recall) the first contested CIPA Presidential election in living memory? <br><br />Of course the relative merits of the candidates had something to do with the results. But not every patent attorney is an emotionless disinterested calculating machine (we leave that to actuaries) and some at least were almost certainly voting on the feeling “<i>She may be a good Fellow but she’s not a chap</i>”. It only takes a few people voting for the “wrong” reasons to tip a balanced election into an unbalanced outcome. <br><br />As for “<i>unsubstantiated allegations</i>”, what allegations? <br><br />To say that there was a possibility that some among the Membership were sexist is simply stating a statistical likelihood. [If you need to understand statistics of character traits look to <a href="%E2%80%9D" rel="nofollow">this</a>].<br><br />If I were to say that from the content of your comments you are sexist, that would be a reasonable (although uncertain) conclusion to reach. <br><br />If I were to say that you <i><b>are</b></i> sexist that would be an allegation: and of course I make no such allegation as one anonymous post is not much to base that judgement on (it may have been dashed of as a result of pressured masculine tension [PMT]). <br><br />If the last two sentences are too strong for you, kindly replace the word “sexist” with “blinkered”. <br><br />By the way, don’t put all (or even most) male members of CIPA in the same category as you appear to be in: namely at the distal end of male members. <br><br />And don’t assume that it is only men who can be sexist: that's sexist. <br>Meldrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09841440718012449720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-43527677806339256572015-01-20T12:14:14.181+00:002015-01-20T12:14:14.181+00:00Two threads now with the "he said - she said&...Two threads now with the "he said - she said" politically correct malarky.<br /><br />There is NO place for a sexist distinction - one way or the other, and using the guise of correcting past mistakes is every bit as "evil" as the past mistakes themselves - if not more so, given that the perpetrators are supposedly "enlightened."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-44203927752952126632015-01-20T10:34:16.733+00:002015-01-20T10:34:16.733+00:00In response to anonymous of 8:49, sexism does exis...In response to anonymous of 8:49, sexism does exist, and there is nothing wrong with pointing out the possibility of its existence in institutions where we see underrepresentation of women. <br /><br />Professions and organisations can be sexist in the sense of fostering an environment which is slightly hostile to women. The UK House of Commons has a very 'laddish' atmosphere and women MP's have complained about how difficult and unfriendly they find it. It must be hindering their work in representing their constituents. Patent firms can also have some of that combined with an intellectual arrogance which is off-putting to those that are more sensitive. When you refer to someone being a 'better candidate' I am sure you mean technically, but sometimes this can end up meaning a 'tougher' person able to cope with male boorish nonsense. No one should have to cope with that, but that is the reality of many workplaces and women can find that offputting. I think that's a problem in many places and needs to be addressed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-39931309536968028722015-01-20T10:16:07.485+00:002015-01-20T10:16:07.485+00:00From the content of several comments which, I susp...From the content of several comments which, I suspect, were posted by men, I can fully understand why women want to have their own IP events.Merpel McKittennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-77509467273974251732015-01-20T08:49:11.660+00:002015-01-20T08:49:11.660+00:00" possibly sexism among the Membership preven..." possibly sexism among the Membership prevented it."<br /><br />these sort of comments are downright pathetic and tiresome.<br /><br />If the male members of CIPA voted against a woman it is because they considered someone else a better candidate. Have you not considered that possibility before spouting unsubstantiated allegations?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-43750053053527782142015-01-20T08:21:40.923+00:002015-01-20T08:21:40.923+00:00Anonymous 19 January 8:58
CIPA was founded in 18...Anonymous 19 January 8:58 <br /><br />CIPA was founded in 18xx and the first female President (Anna Denholm) appointed in 19yy (old-fashioned I know, but I don’t like to reveal any lady’s age, whether the three muses or a President). There have been two female Presidents and there could have been a third earlier had not a contested Presidential election and possibly sexism among the Membership prevented it.<br /><br />5 out of 26 CIPA Council members (including President and Vice-President) are of the female persuasion. This is a bit below the proportion of those qualifying as patent attorneys (which is a statistic not easily found but I would guess from looking at last year’s exam results lying somewhere between 30 and 40%). It would be interesting to see whether the 25% proportion matches the proportion qualifying, say, 10-15 years ago, as it generally (ex-Informal Hon Secs apart) takes a little while before people become active in CIPA.<br /><br />It would also be interesting to see whether the proportions are wildly different in other organisations and in particular whether the male is the endangered species (trade marks?).<br /><br />A Council can only reflect its membership and the wish of a relatively small proportion to put themselves forward. Yes some Neanderthals still stand and are voted in, but for any organisation you cannot expect Council to evolve too much faster than the membership.Meldrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09841440718012449720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-2077448445750441342015-01-19T16:58:23.540+00:002015-01-19T16:58:23.540+00:00Women are also sexist. Just need to look at those ...Women are also sexist. Just need to look at those IP firms dominated by female employees, going directly against the law of probability. Then there are all those other departments such as Personnel that are dominated by female managers.<br /><br />Simple fact is that women have it easier these days. A man works hard for a pay rise and a woman deemed to be of 'equal rank' gets hers automatically so as to be 'equal'<br /><br />Unlike the previous commentator I am truly of the opinion that a number of 'fellow female professionals' are not worthy of their position or salary.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-47641996597812802672015-01-19T15:18:07.745+00:002015-01-19T15:18:07.745+00:00|Yeah. Less of the "simply".|Yeah. Less of the "simply".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-74483009912162188242015-01-19T14:48:48.563+00:002015-01-19T14:48:48.563+00:00Quote of the day: "men are simply sexist.&quo...Quote of the day: "men are simply sexist." Wow!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-52053408407469518792015-01-19T12:27:51.021+00:002015-01-19T12:27:51.021+00:00Without wading into the battle of the anon-o-mice,...Without wading into the battle of the anon-o-mice, I am reminded of the adage that political correctness is all about the political and nothing at all about the correct.<br /><br />One does NOT make an even playing field by tilting the playing field for WHATEVER reasons. The same type of claptrap (to rectify the past, to allow developing nations to 'catch-up') is evident in all sorts of political equalization efforts. This is nothing but a form of reverse-discrimination which is still a sign of discrimination.<br /><br />Another adage: two wrongs do not make a right.<br /><br />Last adage for food for thought: you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make her drink. Now, apply that to the "politically correct" notion of <i>making</i> people have the "right attitudes"...<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com