tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post7467671088022060877..comments2024-03-28T16:45:51.051+00:00Comments on The IPKat: Welcome to London: Home of the Unified Patent Court?Verónica Rodríguez Arguijohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05763207846940036921noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-72998367902474124232011-11-09T08:57:05.223+00:002011-11-09T08:57:05.223+00:00Curiously, nobody mentioned a serious drawback of ...Curiously, nobody mentioned a serious drawback of London as seat for this court: the inconvenience of getting through passport control to enter the country from anywhere else in Europe. While this may not be of notice for Californian litigants, the hassle of waiting in a queue in Heathrow probably beats that of having to change planes or trains to go to Krakow or Tallinn...<br /><br />Nevertheless, reading the latest news, it is apparent that Britons have not yet noticed how much their refusal to enter the Schengen treaty alienates them from the rest of Europe and ultimately damages their economy...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-25175106018673533382011-11-04T13:21:32.812+00:002011-11-04T13:21:32.812+00:00Thank you for the data, Anonymous! Obviously for ...Thank you for the data, Anonymous! Obviously for judges incoming to London for the long-haul, housing/rent may be an issue and definitely a consideration. However, how many litigants are planning to purchase a house in London or indeed Brussels during their court case?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-87203321463430546492011-11-04T12:59:11.143+00:002011-11-04T12:59:11.143+00:00Dear AmeriKat, various AnonyMice,
Wikipedia has a...Dear AmeriKat, various AnonyMice,<br /><br /><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_cities_for_expatriate_employees" rel="nofollow">Wikipedia</a> has an interesting entry on the subject of the different cost of living rankings. As it turns out, ECA International's ranking, like that of the Economist Intelligence Unit, notably excludes the cost of <i>housing</i>, which is notoriously high in London.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.mercer.com/summary.htm?idContent=1095320&originUrl=/home.jhtml" rel="nofollow">Mercer's</a> cost of living ranking,on the other hand, does include housing, and, unsurprisingly, London figures rather more prominently there.<br /><br />A straight cost-of-living comparison between London and Brussels in collaborative website Numbeo reveals that, while some groceries, clothing and telecoms are considerably more expensive in Brussels (which...ahem...may be due to Belgium's rather oligopolistic retail market, maybe the EU's competition authorities should have a closer look), rents cost half as much as in London, and buying a house is two-thirds cheaper (!).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-58401859552401884472011-11-03T22:55:05.044+00:002011-11-03T22:55:05.044+00:00Anonymous at 10:11 - -
1. You say the amount of ...Anonymous at 10:11 - - <br /><br />1. You say the amount of patent litigation occurring in London is a fraction of elsewhere. How are you measuring litigation - by applications, by case number? Also, what is the "fraction"? <br /><br />2. How is suggesting concrete venues ready for the job is scraping the barrel? What court venues are you proposing in Paris, Frankfurt and Amsterdam? <br /><br />3. See the data on Europe's most expensive cities - London ranks below Paris and Brussels. <br /><br />4. Is barrel-scraping a legitimate argument now?<br /><br />5. What city are you suggesting, or are you just suggesting anything other than London?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-17280390291819622102011-11-03T22:11:34.919+00:002011-11-03T22:11:34.919+00:00'1. Already the patent litigant’s venue of cho...'1. Already the patent litigant’s venue of choice...<br /><br />In the intervening years, pending the adoption of a Community patent, where litigants have had a choice of forum, the UK courts have become the obvious venue of choice for litigants and practitioners -- European and foreign alike.' <br /><br />The amount of patent litigation taking place in London is a fraction of that ocurring elsewhere. The DE courts, for example, handle orders of magnitude more cases.<br /><br />A quick look on bailii shows a mere 26 decisions of the Patents Court for 2011. Of these, 2 were appeals from the IPO, 1 concerned SPCs, 1 was a copyright matter, 1 concerned damages, 2 concerned agreements, 10 were broadly procedural matters, and a paltry 9 concerned 'substantive' issues of I and V.<br /><br /><br /><br />2 'where there is strong financial center, therein follows innovation and expertise – expertise that is found in the UK’s judiciary, its experienced practitioners, and litigation support services.'<br /><br />It is tenuous at best to draw a link between London as a financial centre and it having experienced patent judges/practitioners. There is no obvious correlation between the two at all.<br /><br />There is even less evidence to suggest any link between the 'City' and technological innovation, of which there is approximately zero in London.<br /><br /><br />'3. It has the venue'<br /><br />This is really scraping the barrel as a reason. As if a suitable venue couldn't be found in Paris, Frankfurt, Amsterdam etc (all of which, incidentally, are also financial centres having experienced patent judges/practitioners...)<br /><br /><br />4 'It has the location'<br /><br />see e.g the above three cities which are also well connected. Frankfurt's airport even works most winters...<br /><br />5 'Dispelling the misconceptions'<br /><br />Litigation costs in the UK remain considerably higher than elsewhere in Europe.<br /><br />London has certainly become cheaper than it was relative to other European cities over the last five years as the pound has dropped against the euro.<br /><br />But it remains one of the most expensive cities in europe. Further, given that most of europe uses the euro (for the time being at least), there would be an argument against London so as to protect the majority of European users of the court against currency movements.<br /><br />'6 A few more reasons'<br /><br />More barrel scrapingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-69377424922833452182011-11-03T21:39:38.987+00:002011-11-03T21:39:38.987+00:00London is the largest and most important financial...<i>London is the largest and most important financial market in the world. Say what you want about the current state of affairs in the world’s financial markets but, where there is strong financial center, therein follows innovation and expertise – expertise that is found in the UK’s judiciary, its experienced practitioners, and litigation support services.</i><br /><br />and<br /><br /><i>[...] and -- unlike some civil law systems -- there is no career judiciary in the UK. British judges, and especially the IP-specialist judges, are recruited from the cream of the country's senior legal practitioners; [...] </i><br /><br />Please allow me to reformulate your impassioned arguments (or twist them viciously, if you prefer):<br /><br />UK judges are co-opted from practictioners dedicated to the pursuit of corporate interests, who will know where their best interest lies if they are to return one day to private practice.<br /><br />As to the relationship between innovation and capital, I'm not so positively sure about that either. (Critics such as David F. Noble come to mind).<br /><br />Is that compatible with the goal stated in the EU document:<br /><br /><i>CONSIDERING that the Unified Patent Court shall be designed to ensure expeditious and high quality decisions, striking a fair balance between the interests of right holders <b>and other parties</b> and taking into account the need for proportionality and flexibility [...]</i><br /><br />I note that magistrates will have to be recruited from all EU members, where civil-law tradition clearly dominates. I'm not so sure how this could fit with the local London talent, or how the British could impose their vision of things.<br /><br />As a national of a former (?) colony whose judicial business was once ultimately settled by the House of Lords, I'm not that convinced either of the inherent superiority of the British legal system.<br /><br />For costs, I remember reading (here?) that infringement proceedings in the UK are notoriously expensive, and that the litigant better plan a war chest of the order of one million pounds or more.<br /><br />Is this what we want for an EU patent court?<br /><br /><i>If you are travelling from Silicon Valley or Sydney to attend a court hearing in the Unified Patent Court, do you want one non-stop flight or a three-leg journey to your destination? If you miss your flight, do you want to have to wait a day for the next flight?</i><br /><br />As if the <a href="http://www.txed.uscourts.gov/page1.shtml?location=info" rel="nofollow">Texas ED</a> venues were that accessible... How do you <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093748/" rel="nofollow">get</a> from, say, Redmond WA to Texarkana TX? Yet parties love to mess around in Texas. And why should an European court favorize a particular group of overseas litigants over another one, or, for that matter, over its own citizens? If the number of cases handled by that court bears any relation to that handled by the EPO's BoA, it shouldn't be a big factor. And frankly, I'm not so sure that air travel will still be around in the current form in the next decades.<br /><br />IMO, the language issue militates against the selection of London, as it would make English more equal than other languages. Small regions, with a lot of political or political borders, are still the best candidates, even if that means reverting to one of the usual suspects (BE, NL, LU, or even Strasbourg or Geneva).Roufousse T. Fairflynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-30509308983603455772011-11-03T20:08:42.335+00:002011-11-03T20:08:42.335+00:00Anonymous at 5:46PM -
Your wish is this Kat'...Anonymous at 5:46PM - <br /><br />Your wish is this Kat's command: <br /><br />ECA International conducts a yearly survey into the most expensive cities for cost of living - which is probably the best indication. The Top 50 most expensive cities in the world included the following EU MS cities:<br /><br />13. Helsinki, Finland<br />17. Stockholm, Sweden<br />20. Paris, France<br />30. Gothenburg, Sweden<br />34. Vienna, Austria<br />39. Brussels, Belgium<br />43. Rome, Italy<br />48. Strasbourg, France<br /><br />London is not there, you will notice....<br /><br />http://www.eca-international.com/news/press_releases/7355/<br /><br />ECA International also conducted the survey which you cited as "fishy". <br /><br />http://www.citymayors.com/statistics/expensive-cities-europe.html<br /><br />The UBS survey has Paris, Vienna, Luxembourg above London and Munich who are 15 and 16 respectively.<br /><br />However, the UBS polled less cities in Europe than the ECA so the data pool is smaller and thus should be taken into account. <br /><br />Buying lunch in Denmark costs €26 and in Brussels its €18 - in London you can get a good lunch for around €12 (or free if you can get the AmeriKat to pay). A carton of eggs (should you need it during your patent proceedings) will cost you €2.56 in Finland,€4.24 in Paris and €4.96 in Vienna. In London - 2.20. Should you wish to purchase a washing machine in Berlin, it will cost you €600. <br /><br />http://images.businessweek.com/ss/10/06/0622_most_expensive_cities/1.htmAnnsley Merelle Wardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09184706067469338128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-43368531414643471552011-11-03T19:42:33.573+00:002011-11-03T19:42:33.573+00:00How about in London right near the Old Nick...so t...How about in London right near the Old Nick...so that the Kats won't be too far away for the mice to play....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-72132574908567108442011-11-03T17:46:27.159+00:002011-11-03T17:46:27.159+00:00Anonymous@12:56 I think that it was a Londoner who...Anonymous@12:56 I think that it was a Londoner who made the quip of "Lies, damned lies and statistics". Those in particular, judging from my own anecdotal evidence, seem incredibly fishy, and I'd like to get some alternative data from a less obscure source.<br /><br />As for Anonymous@2:42, Brussels is in fact surprisingly affordable, apart from a handful of expense-account restaurants and hotels round the EU institutions. Maybe I should give you some addresses...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-57346392630559407642011-11-03T14:42:02.435+00:002011-11-03T14:42:02.435+00:00Agree with Anon @12.56, London's not cheap, bu...Agree with Anon @12.56, London's not cheap, but neither is any other large EU city (the prices in Brussels were eye-watering even compared to London and Strasbourg and Munich were no better). If you want cheap, then you have to go to a smaller, less popular city, but that often means poor transport links and increased cost of flights. London is well served by a large number of airlines, which must push down travel costs, and also means you can actually get there when you want (thus saving the cost of extra hotel nights), rather than only when there's a flight available (try flying to Strasbourg and you'll see what I mean on that).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-44943054816291657452011-11-03T12:56:57.095+00:002011-11-03T12:56:57.095+00:00Expensive London: a total myth. Here's the tab...Expensive London: a total myth. Here's the table of research results, commissioned by ECA Research for the City Mayors Foundation. In the table of most expensive cities, Central London is only 37th, well behind Paris (9th), Munich (15th), The Hague (17th), Milan (21st), Barcelona (27th) and Madrid (30th). Outer London is 49th.<br />See full chart here http://www.citymayors.com/statistics/expensive-cities-europe.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-48429719790762292782011-11-03T11:00:47.689+00:002011-11-03T11:00:47.689+00:00The arguments in favour of London certainly have c...The arguments in favour of London certainly have considerable merit.<br /><br />While many native English people might not have foreign language fluency, I recall that some years ago Air France based its main international office in London because of the availability of native speakers of pretty well any language. However, experience suggests that politics will prevail over logic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-47751395486660539202011-11-03T10:56:13.734+00:002011-11-03T10:56:13.734+00:00As a Client, my pet peeve is costs!
London is a ho...As a Client, my pet peeve is costs!<br />London is a horribly expensive city compared to Munich and that translates into higher costs at each stage - from higher fee for attorneys in the matter all the way to very HIGH hotel room charges... frankly, I would not put my vote for London.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-9934728257009854102011-11-03T09:14:29.517+00:002011-11-03T09:14:29.517+00:00In my experience court officials don't even re...In my experience court officials don't even read the documents that are in English. Not sure that is such a hurdle....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-41249018292466477652011-11-03T09:06:21.681+00:002011-11-03T09:06:21.681+00:00A significant barrier to London becoming the home ...A significant barrier to London becoming the home of the UPC is, however, the inability of the population to work in anything other than their native language. Can you imagine UK court officers processing documents in Bulgarian?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-65323090120030253152011-11-03T08:58:35.784+00:002011-11-03T08:58:35.784+00:00These reasons also apply to München and Düsseldorf...These reasons also apply to München and Düsseldorf. Which are more centrally based in Europe, in a more European minded country than Albion.<br /><br />So from an objective point of view - neither England or Germany are my home countries and both are at about equal distance from my home - I'd rather opt for München than for London.<br /><br />And it's also a bit less expensive than London. Remember once in a while, we have to take the interests of our client into account as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-25400464201300928852011-11-03T08:55:36.937+00:002011-11-03T08:55:36.937+00:00I nearly agree with Steve, with the proviso that &...I nearly agree with Steve, with the proviso that "success" needs to be defined. We need to have a court that is considered to be fair to all parties, that is determined to make the rules functional and effective, and that gives a cost-effective solution. It is easy to make a court successful in terms of attracting cases - just make it flagrantly pro-claimant and you can guarantee to attract work. That might make the court successful on one measure, and it will be popular with trolls, but it will do nothing to build the social good that the project is aimed at achieving. On this measure, we can be confident that the environment in London would foster a truly successful court.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-49882924386269318162011-11-03T08:03:34.432+00:002011-11-03T08:03:34.432+00:00Since the EU clearly wants its patent scheme to be...Since the EU clearly wants its patent scheme to be successful this time around, the key question which should be posed is, "Where should the patent court (central division) be located in order to ensure the greatest chances of the scheme's success?". This certainly would point towards London, or at least towards a small number of cities - including London - where patents are frequently litigated and which are easily accessible internationally. Conversely it would point against locations which do not meet those two criteria, even if the countries concerned do not yet have an EU agency. These two criteria are not so relevant as regards the location of agencies, as distinct from courts.Steve Peersnoreply@blogger.com