tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post7740755066049217852..comments2024-03-28T13:45:42.289+00:00Comments on The IPKat: "Oh-oh! It's the EPO": More Munich mewsings from Merpel Verónica Rodríguez Arguijohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05763207846940036921noreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-64020970256695753952015-02-18T08:37:04.018+00:002015-02-18T08:37:04.018+00:00Anon 2303,
No?
The UK is represented by the UKIPO ...Anon 2303,<br />No?<br />The UK is represented by the UKIPO and they show no sign of intervening in this way. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-56727262548446894472015-02-17T23:03:33.523+00:002015-02-17T23:03:33.523+00:00Will president of administrating council answer a ...Will president of administrating council answer a letter of cipa?<br />http://www.cipa.org.uk/pages/whatsnew/article?44995B9C-F1F7-4D7A-898F-7BC22CE9EAFFLLnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-51590297404646568542015-02-17T15:45:08.106+00:002015-02-17T15:45:08.106+00:00"Yes, I can. As I (and others) have already t..."Yes, I can. As I (and others) have already told you, the costs of the Berlin Office fall on the Government of Germany."<br /><br />Shouldn't that be "the costs of the Berlin sub-office" ?<br /><br />Can the Boards of Appeal be relocated to a "sub-office" ?<br /><br />Perhaps ... Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-18318708743691012692015-02-16T18:09:51.382+00:002015-02-16T18:09:51.382+00:00Just as a question about the Protocol. "Sect...Just as a question about the Protocol. "Section VIII: … The provisions governing the weighting of votes (Article 36 of the Convention) shall apply."<br /><br />What are the weights of countries like Germany, UK, France? Especially, Germany, which will bear the maintaining costs for Berlin BoA?<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-13737210876813877972015-02-16T15:41:50.990+00:002015-02-16T15:41:50.990+00:00Can anybody see any upside?
Yes, I can. As I (an...Can anybody see any upside?<br /><br />Yes, I can. As I (and others) have already told you, the costs of the Berlin Office fall on the Government of Germany.<br /><br />DG3 is very expensive. The President is on a mission to drive down cost. Moving DG3 to Berlin would seem to me to drive down costs enormously, in one quick and easy step. What could be more Win-Win than that?MaxDreinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-31859317109732557542015-02-16T15:29:04.338+00:002015-02-16T15:29:04.338+00:00WHAT?? "Enhance visibility of independence&qu...WHAT?? "Enhance visibility of independence" by just spatially moving them? what does that help when they stay invisibly fully dependent and the Maestro stretches his fingers in an abusive way ... BB should just keep out of BoA business: they are dealing with a relative small amount of cases only, which will not be decisive for his or VP1s golden handshakes. It appears to be just personal profilation helping nobody, but erodes the European patent system.<br />If the spatial separation from HQ-Munich would help anything, staff in The Hague, Berlin or Vienna would be much happier than in Munich ... don't guess that this is the case ... the envisaged move is just eyewash which only costs money (but perhaps does that go to the right pockets, who knows).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-40502541688832111422015-02-16T13:45:09.911+00:002015-02-16T13:45:09.911+00:00I wonder what reason will be presented to the AC t...I wonder what reason will be presented to the AC to justify any move to Berlin. Can anyone see any upside to the possible move?<br /><br />The justification for the proposals (whatever the proposals may be) being to "enhance the visibility of the independence and autonomy of governance" strikes me as mehr Schein als Sein i.e. the appearance of independence due to geographical remoteness, whilst in reality having independence eroded.<br /><br />How many appeals will now be filed citing a lack of independence? Who will be the first to refer an EPO decision to a national (sympathetic UK?) court due to non-compliance of the BoA with TRIPS?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-1417101726276806552015-02-16T12:55:47.391+00:002015-02-16T12:55:47.391+00:00"Readers, when using the words "overlook...<i>"Readers, when using the words "overlook" and "oversee" just bear in mind that, for many of those who have English as a foreign language, when they read "oversee" they think "overlook". "</i><br /><br />That is why nobody can really complain if you say that the the Administrative Council is doing a great job "overseeing" the actions of the President.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-29655240337531425792015-02-16T12:47:00.499+00:002015-02-16T12:47:00.499+00:00Sorry, but the idea that the degree of inconvenien...Sorry, but the idea that the degree of inconvenience suffered by patent attorneys travelling to oral proceedings might sway the Administrative Council in its choice of venue for EPO's DG3 is laughable. <br /><br />And if they do, they might favour the venue with the maximum inconvenience. Still on the theme of absurdity, keep in mind that the members of the AC represent the national Patent Offices, competing with the EPO for the Business to be placed by the bulk filers of patent applications. <br /><br />What other large organistation has a Supervisory Body populated exclusively by its competitors, who would like nothing more than to see it go out of business?MaxDreinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-55981676640026903382015-02-16T11:10:08.123+00:002015-02-16T11:10:08.123+00:00There are 2 flights per day from Riga to Berlin an...There are 2 flights per day from Riga to Berlin and also 2 flights to Munich. There is a direct train from Munich airport to the EPO, while in Berlin 1 or 2 transfers are needed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-85188662466096201702015-02-16T06:57:27.267+00:002015-02-16T06:57:27.267+00:00Haven't seen anyone say if they would prefer t...Haven't seen anyone say if they would prefer the BoA to be in Berlin. Since the AC is one country one vote, would smaller countries prefer Berlin on the basis that they are more likely to have flights to the capital than to Munich? From say Riga, would Berlin be a direct flight? They may only have a few (or fewer) visits per year but that might not affect their voting. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-46403115224793245012015-02-15T16:48:59.058+00:002015-02-15T16:48:59.058+00:00I think that what that last commenter means is &qu...I think that what that last commenter means is "All that's needed is a Circular issued by the President, given that the AC is performing from inside the EPO President's pocket its duty to oversee its employee, the President of the EPO".<br /><br />Readers, when using the words "overlook" and "oversee" just bear in mind that, for many of those who have English as a foreign language, when they read "oversee" they think "overlook".MaxDreinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-11260373923988062252015-02-15T16:18:01.033+00:002015-02-15T16:18:01.033+00:00Dear Anon 22:16 - sorry, but I can't bring mys...Dear Anon 22:16 - sorry, but I can't bring myself to refer to anyone as an "ugly American".<br />I fear the direction of our discussion is not one to be shared in this environment. I am sure we could have a very instructive (and enjoyable) debate on the relative merits of the two systems, but this is probably not the place. I do understand your view as I have encountered it before. None the less, at the moment those in the trenches are being bombarded with statistical (or sadistical) "facts" proving unquestionably, despite all the local evidence, that they are indeed happy, healthy and every bit as good as they have ever been. So if you don't mind, I'll stick to my view that, despite the facts on innovation, we are none the less talking "opinions".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-5533870146741405532015-02-15T15:54:55.411+00:002015-02-15T15:54:55.411+00:00> In order to move the BoA to Berlin
Section I...> In order to move the BoA to Berlin<br /><br />Section I, (3)(d) of the Protocol says that:"The Federal Republic of Germany shall bear any additional costs incurred by the European Patent Organisation in setting up and maintaining the sub-office in Berlin."<br /><br />So, Germany would maintain the EPO BoA? How about independence?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-76056626640148276162015-02-15T15:12:40.994+00:002015-02-15T15:12:40.994+00:00In order to move the BoA to Berlin at least the Ce...<i> In order to move the BoA to Berlin at least the Centralisation Protocol (and probably also Articles 6 and 7 EPC) should be amended.</i><br /><br />Complete and utter tosh.<br /><br />All that's needed is a Circular issued by the President.<br /><br />That'll do the job nicely and it will teach interfering busybodies like Sir Jacob (sic) to mind their own business.<br /><br />Move along now folks, nothing to see here ...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-77565154517122265482015-02-15T11:32:39.804+00:002015-02-15T11:32:39.804+00:00The Berlin sub-office was created according to cen...The Berlin sub-office was created according to centralisation protocol to carry out search work and further employ the staff of the Berlin Annex of the German Patent Office (EPC 1973). In the EPC 2000 the protocol was amended to allow it carry out other duties, according to Section I, (3)(b). However, these duties were meant to encompass examination work and not BoA work. This is made very clear by Section I(3)(a), according to which Berlin operates under the direction of the Hague. This is not merely a formal dependency but a real one. At present responsible for The Hague and, as consequence, Berlin is Mr Minnoye. It would surely be a good idea to have him also directing the operation of the BoA. In order to move the BoA to Berlin at least the Centralisation Protocol (and probably also Articles 6 and 7 EPC) should be amended. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-217784461205788442015-02-15T01:21:00.521+00:002015-02-15T01:21:00.521+00:00Berlin is not a sub-office created under Art. 7 EP...Berlin is not a sub-office created under Art. 7 EPC. The legal basis for the Berlin sub-office is Section I, Art. 3 of the Protocol on Centralisation (which is an integral part of the EPC, see Art. 164(1)).<br /><br />The Berlin sub-office shall operate under the direction of the branch at The Hague (Section I, Art. 3(a)). The AC determines the duties to be allocated to the sub-office in Berlin (Section I, Art. 3(b)).<br /><br />It is clear that search and examination work can be performed at the Berlin sub-office (assuming the AC at some point took the appropriate decision under Art. 3(b), which I did not check). It is more difficult to reconcile "shall operate under the direction of the branch at The Hague" with BoA work, but I guess one could read this phrase as "the Berlin sub-office is formally part of the branch at The Hague". That's in fact how it is usually understood.<br /><br />A three quarters majority in the AC is needed for a decision to allocate BoA work to Berlin (Section VIII of the Protocol on Centralisation).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-5085686299583229182015-02-15T00:11:01.015+00:002015-02-15T00:11:01.015+00:00The sub-office in Berlin was not created under Art...The sub-office in Berlin was not created under Art. 7 EPC (only "for the purpose of information and liaison").<br /><br />Rather, it was created by Section I(3) of the Protocol on Centralisation.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-70083389503187504182015-02-14T23:17:21.558+00:002015-02-14T23:17:21.558+00:00@Anon 21:10
Art. 4a EPC only concerns a conference...@Anon 21:10<br />Art. 4a EPC only concerns a conference of ministers not a diplomatic conference (heads of state).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-74409631003825083642015-02-14T22:48:50.592+00:002015-02-14T22:48:50.592+00:00> come up with their own proposal
>> app...> come up with their own proposal<br /><br />>> appointment for 10 years, with possibility of an extension for 10 years<br /><br />>> appointment by AC on proposal of EBoA. no other participants in an appointment procedure<br /><br />as a follow-up:<br /><br />AC+EBoA ensure that X % of (E)BoA members are always appointed; <br /><br />Y % of (E)BoA members have served previously in the EPO for at least 5 years;<br /><br />a member of (E)BoA is appointed/removed from the Office at an AC's meeting called for this purpose. <br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-37484398945109951992015-02-14T22:23:46.690+00:002015-02-14T22:23:46.690+00:00> since Berlin is a sub-office of the EPO
>...> since Berlin is a sub-office of the EPO <br /><br />>>sub-offices can be created only "for the purpose of information and liaison", not for BoA, art. 7 EPC.<br /><br />Impression is that art. 6 EPC together with art. 7 EPC do not open a possibility for moving BoA to anywhere, except The Hague.<br /><br />art. 6 EPC: offices in Munich and The Hague;<br />art. 7 EPC: "for the purpose of information and liaison" at other locations. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-68001901261798892992015-02-14T22:16:15.286+00:002015-02-14T22:16:15.286+00:00Anon @ 19:55,
This is the "Ugly American&quo...Anon @ 19:55,<br /><br />This is the "Ugly American" replying.<br /><br />Yes, you have a point that both of us viewing the EPO management as having series, even fatal, problems does speak volumes.<br /><br />No, you do not have a point concerning your mere "opinion" on just who is the innovation leader. Yes, I do get that this is in part what makes Americans "Ugly" in the eyes of others, but the fact remains, our nation is the single most innovative nation in the world (leastwise, was before the AIA and the untowards influences degradating our patent system to be more like ROW).<br /><br />Notwithstanding that difference, I do wish all those caught up in the trench warfare well. From this vantage point, sadly, it appears that it will get worse, much worse, before it gets better.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-26270926634608227922015-02-14T21:10:43.178+00:002015-02-14T21:10:43.178+00:00> since Berlin is a sub-office of the EPO
sub...> since Berlin is a sub-office of the EPO <br /><br />sub-offices can be created only "for the purpose of information and liaison", not for BoA, art. 7 EPC.<br /><br />> require a diplomatic conference<br /><br />EPO can ran without a diplomatic conference only for 5 years, art. 4a EPC.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-92093668239316529582015-02-14T19:55:26.016+00:002015-02-14T19:55:26.016+00:00Dear 13:07
It honours you that you think your syst...Dear 13:07<br />It honours you that you think your system is the best and it is good so. The fact that we Europeans do not share that view is also good so. The fact that both we Europeans and you from the US, with 180° opposing wishes and viewpoints both think the EPO management, shall we say "leaves much to be desired", speaks volumes.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574479.post-65443846249543059212015-02-14T17:58:07.472+00:002015-02-14T17:58:07.472+00:00Being EPO examiner since decades, I totally agree ...Being EPO examiner since decades, I totally agree with Zazie.<br />The easiest way for unmask a fast search is to look at the first communication. When seeing many X documents -the whole document- against all claims, when seeing many correction of spelling errors, but no real reasoning on why your claims lack novelty and inventivity, be sure the reply to the applicant's answer will be a direct grant. Should your invention fall in a sensitive area, be sure oppsitions will flourish.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com