This week, candidates for the UK patent examination are trialling the online examination system "PEBX". Candidates who are having issues with the trial system should email peb@cipa.org.uk. However, the PEB has already stated that, although they welcome candidate feedback, they will not be able to make any changes to the system before the exams in mid-October.
If you experience major difficulties during the exam itself, such as a complete loss of internet, the essential information for candidates indicates that you should email pebx@cipa.org.uk. This Kat wonders how you should go about sending an email to the PEB if you don't have any internet. Perhaps a phone number would be of more use? If a candidate does suffer an internet failure during the exam, the PEB indicates that they should consider applying for Special Consideration.
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| Autumn lock-down blues |
Once candidates start the exam, they will be able to download and save the Question paper and Answer sheet. The formatting of the Answer Sheet makes the use of tables a bit unwieldy, but otherwise supports full word functionality. Candidates are allowed to print their question paper. It is not mentioned in the candidate information if you are allowed to print part of you answer for easy reference, e.g. your construction section for FD4/P6 so that you can easily refer to it later.
So what are candidates' experiences of the trial?
The trial exams coincide with a worrying increase of the official coronavirus risk level in the UK. CIPA and many patent firms have encouraged candidates to take the exams at work if possible. It was necessary for candidates to make this decision by the end of August. It seems (anecdotally) that the majority of candidates did elect to take the exams at work. However, in a worrying development today, the new Government guidance is that we should all be working from home if possible (BBC news). According to Michael Gove, "if you can work from home, you should". With coronavirus related restrictions set to increase over the coming weeks, candidates who have elected to take the exams at work may be anxious about what this might mean for their exams in a few weeks' time. The hope is that the PEB will be prepared to be accommodating in response to the rapidly changing situation.
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Tuesday, September 22, 2020
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Posts
I understand that zoom will work just the same as it does in "normal" life and so the hope is candidates are already familiar with the system, hence no trial. As long as you know how to log on, use your webcam and use the Zoom chat function, I believe it should be straight forward. It is the invigilators who have the harder job.
ReplyDeleteFor the question on printing parts of one's answer, have a play with the split screen function in Word which allows you to see two parts of a document at the same time. A new tool for me which has proved useful in real life.
I hope trialling of the system has allayed many of candidates' concerns. When I tested it, it certainly seemed simple, clean and intuitive to use.
I thought the PEBX portal worked fine, but was surprised that they didn't trial the Zoom invigilation too. I wanted to see how bathroom breaks worked, are the "screen rests" enforced, what happens if you don't use them - do you have to submit your answers earlier?! I also wanted more details of "the sweep" - do I need to make sure my webcam is portable, so that I can show the Examiner about my toilet?!
DeleteThe "split screen" tip is great, thanks Sarah!
ReplyDeleteConsidering how many false starts there have been, I was a bit unsure what to expect. However I have been pleasantly surprised. The system is straightforward to use and seems to allow us to make the most of the new format.
My only concern is the "scarboroughcloud" website that hosts the exam. It seemed fairly slow today, almost as if it was struggling. Hopefully it won't crash on the day.
The scarboroughcloud website is part of SCD (Secure and Confidential Documents) who have provided the exam documents since the PEB was set up. I and the PEB are also concerned that the website might crash, which is one reason why the test is being carried out in real time so SCD can see how the system copes. SCD has been made fully aware that it needs to provide some sort of non-web based backup but I don't know the details of what this is. One of the "joys" of having to put a brand new system in place, unfortunately.
DeleteI am pleased the system is working though. The landing page has been changed since I tested it - I wanted the uploading to be made much easier to see and understand as I ended up faffing around pressing the wrong buttons! It turns out I hadn't read the documentation as instructed : /
Candidates under exam pressure are prone to making silly mistakes, so thanks for testing the system and helping reach a straightforward solution :)
DeleteI thought the trial was to test all components- a bit worrying that PEB have left trialling Zoom until "the day". Although Zoom itself is relatively straightforward, making sure your computer functions with all the new devices required for this exam (candidates in my firm have had to purchase new printers and webcams, all requiring multiple USB connections) and getting everything working in tandem is no small task- it would have been better if candidates could have had a full trial.
ReplyDeleteI too am disappointed that Zoom can't be tested at the same time, and I am sure the Invigilators probably feel the same way. However, I am sure it would have been tested if it could have been. I don't think all the licences are in place yet and neither are all the invigilators - if anyone feels like volunteering. If I can persuade the PEB to arrange for any kind of Zoom testing for candidates, I promise I will.
DeleteIt's not the same, but it's better than nothing - Zoom offer a test page here: https://zoom.us/test
Deleteso, in addition to my comment above, this trial has only ever been to test the PEBX system because it is a totally brand new system and needs to be tested to check it actually works, and works for everyone.
DeleteAs I said above, Zoom should be known to candidates and is a known, widely available system. I appreciate that being invigilated via a webcam is different to an exam hall and this was always going to be the case no matter which system was used. Zoom certainly seems to be the simplest of the technologies available. The commercial alternative, which turned out not to record for long enough, would have been a total headache for candidates in comparison.
I echo the comment below - good luck everyone in such an unusual time. Thank you to those of you who have been helpful and encouraging while the PEB has had such a mammoth task this year. I hope the handful of persistent critics and nay-sayers are persuaded that something has worked and I truly look forward to awarding lots of passes this year : ) MAKE SURE YOU READ, UNDERSTAND AND INWARDLY DIGEST EVERY BIT OF INFORMATION THAT IS PROVIDED, EVEN IF YOU THINK YOU HAVE READ IT BEFORE!
Can we present a table in FD4 in landscape format? The model answer (2013) showed a landscape table- but the trial paper says not to modify the formatting so I presume this is not allowed. I think it would greatly help candidates and Examiners reading the scripts to have this simple modification.
ReplyDeleteI don't see why you shouldn't be able to as candidates have always done so with handwriting. Just make sure you are familiar with formatting sections before the exam so the whole paper doesn't come out as landscape, for which you might not be thanked!! What the marking examiners are worried about is if candidates put the font to 8 and single lines (as an extreme example!) for some strange reason. The type face also needs to be the one set in the document. The reason for these format settings is to help our dyslexic examiners.
DeleteHope this helps.
That'd be great if that was the case. The trail exam paper instructions specifically state not to modify any formatting though- seems it would be quite risky for students to do this? Would be great if PEB could clarify.
DeleteLeave it with me...
DeleteMy recommendation on this one is to practice using a portrait table as you can copy and paste and so don't have to spend valuable time re-writing the claims.
DeleteAll the very best to the candidates sitting these exams at this strange time.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone know if using a Laptop webcam is acceptable, or if a separate webcam is required?
ReplyDeleteAnd if spell check will be allowed? And the synonyms function?
Regarding changing the format to landscape, I understood the information to mean that such changes to the layout would not be accepted?
All a bit worrying. Even though the test has been helpful.
I would think that a laptop webcam should be acceptable, provided you can pick up the laptop and do a proper room scan. That said, I've just bought one for £15 so it shouldn't break the bank.
DeleteYes, spell check should work. I didn't try synonyms but you could if you have another trial opportunity. My understanding is all the functionality of Word should be there.
If you have another opportunity to upload another answer, I would also try adding a landscape table. I certainly won't reject papers in such a format, but I will get the PEB to confirm.
I've been thinking about the landscape table question and my suggestion is, because copy and paste is easy this year, try using portrait tables with only two columns rather than putting all the prior art for inventive step in one table. I know it's not ideal but we really do want to limit weird and wonderful versions of scripts to mark if people start fiddling with formatting. However, I _am_ waiting for an answer from the PEB so I will let you know
DeleteThat's great, thank you Sarah!
DeleteI did try, and both spell check and synonyms appeared to be available. As such, I'll be working under the assumption that it will be permissible to use these features.
Regarding the landscape table, I tried it and think I'll go by your second recommendation of using portrait tables. As you correctly said, it is easy to copy paste the claim language etc this year.
Thanks again!
Credit where it is due - PEB has done a fantastic job with the PEBX system. Yes, there are some concerns, my PEBX portal kept freezing for a while and wouldn't refresh - I was worried that I couldn't upload my script in time (last 5 minutes).
ReplyDeleteI think the time allocated is fair as I did found that I had to use up most of the time. The system seem straightforward but I also note that some may not have tried the system so hopefully on the time, there are no problems uploading scripts 10 minutes before the time is up.
Although I understand that checks need to be carried out, I did notice that having to log in 1 hour before the exam start date has a dramatic impact on performance especially towards to the end of a very long exam period (around 5.5 hours for the shortest exam if you include the 1 hour at the start).
ReplyDeleteIs there anyway we can reduce the 1 hour burden at the start of the exam. For example, once you've got your ID check, can you go and make a cup of tea before the exam start or do you really need to sit in your room at wait for 10am start.
If they could be more flexible with this hour before the exam then that would be great.
DeleteBoris Johnson announcement today saying that we should work from home and only travel into the office if it is absolutely essential i.e. we can't do work from home. Does anyone know if exams would be classed as "essential" travel. There are obviously bigger things than exams and don't want to be irresponsibly breaking the rules, especially as a legal representative.
DeleteObviously, no one knew back in August that this would be the case but is there any chance that PEB will allow candidates to switch venues to take the exams at home.
There is nothing to say that you have to sit in front of your computer for that hour. Once you are logged in by the invigilator you should be free to do as you wish. The hour is needed for the invigilators to get everyone in and checked. Think of it as being that horrible nervous time milling around before going into the exam hall. You wouldn't skid in 5 minutes before the exam starts unless something has gone wrong : /
DeleteIt has been a very very tricky time preparing for exam this year and during revision, I've been quite anxious and constantly concerned about whether the exam is on/off, what format it is and even then we had issues/concerns about the online system. I must say that I was pleasantly surprised about the PEBX system - it seems to work well. I echo many of the people before me in that it seems slow and at times, the page won't refresh. I ended up having to log in and off before uploading my script.
ReplyDeleteI would like to have invigilators tested us because it would be useful to know how they would interrupt you during the exam via zoom. My speaker automatically switched itself off (presumably because it ran out of battery) but I would have no idea if this would mean I would get in trouble during the exam if they wanted to contact me during the exam etc...
As for advice, I would urge anyone to use a USB and not a bluetooth speaker.
Yes, completely agree its been very tricky revising this summer. The uncertainty does not help. I share a flat with 4 other people with a tiny room so been doing most of my work in the living room (which is not always ideal). I hope the government doesn't introduce travel restriction as I'm taking my exam in the office.
DeleteI would really hope the invigilator will not interrupt you during the exam and I don't think that is the plan. If there are any issues, my guess is they will use the chat function, rather than speakers but I can check if you'd like me to.
DeleteMy view is that if you need to take the exam in the office due to children/home arrangements then this would be supported as essential
DeleteTesting the exam was useful. I do have small kids (2 and 3.5 yrs) and no matter how many times my partner tries to stop them disturbing me, they manage to find a way to come into the office. I do have a lock on the door but they kept banging the door.
ReplyDeleteMy partner ended up taking the kids round to a friend's place. Obviously, with all the new coronavirus restrictions taking place (and looks like there is more to come) I am slightly worried that it would not be easy to keep kids away in October. I don't know if anyone else has this problem. I'm guessing single parents are in a much tricky situation than me. Any advice would be good - revision with kids inside this year has been an absolute nightmare!
The school my kids go have an some positive coronavirus cases and sending kids from specific classes back home to parents.
DeleteIt does indeed create a massive headache in the midst of all the exam preparation.
I do have a slight issue with FD1 - Is there any chance the wording can be spaced out a little bit more? The resolution/quality of my printer ink is not great so it smudges a bit when I print the paper. The text seems a bit small online so if this small adjustment can be made then that would be good.
ReplyDeleteyou should be able to increase the zoom within Adobe. I'm afraid the paper is already tucked away safely within the SCD system ready to be issued - sorry.
DeleteOverall, I found the PEBX system easy to use but would there be a 10 minute warning before the end of the "real" exam. Also for FD1, are we able to submit our timelines as part of the answer?
ReplyDeleteyou can submit whatever you want as part of your answer, provided it is uploaded in the correct format. Not sure if there is a limit on the number of documents you can upload but I know there is capacity to upload a typed document and a handwritten document. Test the system and see what happens - that's what this week is all about : )
DeleteThis does raise an interesting question. In the PEB guidelines, it was mentioned that there was no need to provide scanned documents for FD1.
DeleteHowever, most people would like to handwrite their timelines. Can handwritten timelines (so long as its on the answer sheets) now be scanned and submitted as part of FD1.
I believe the system is able to accept scanned docs for FD1. The guidance on the need for scanning (or not) was to allay the fright that all candidates needed a scanner to be able to sit Finals, which is simply not the case. If you want to submit handwritten notes then you can. Just be aware that they are rarely marked. I suggest you make sure documents are clearly cross-referenced so examiners can see when to refer and to what.
DeleteAs I've said in other comments, give the upload a test with what you feel you'd like to submit. If the system accepts the uploads then it will all be sent for marking.
I can't see why PEB would object to this but maybe Sarah/PEB can clarify.
DeleteWould having 6 trainees and an invigilator in one meeting room/office/building count against rule of 6 indoors?
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure if PEB can clarify and if possible, it would be useful if they can provide further guidance updates in light of what has been announced today by the government.
I'm afraid that's for the Government, not the PEB, to answer as the PEB doesn't set those particular rules
DeleteUnfortunately, the government keeps making changes which is creating havoc. We were allowed back to the office a few weeks ago and now been told to go home again. Adding more stress in already stressful + difficult exam.
DeleteHoping there won't be anymore changes in a few weeks but who knows. See if you can split up into smaller offices. Might be able to circumvent the "rule of 6".
I believe the rule of 6 doesn't apply at the office - see https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-meeting-with-others-safely-social-distancing/coronavirus-covid-19-meeting-with-others-safely-social-distancing#rules-in-other-venues-and-activities
Delete"There are exceptions where groups can be larger than 6 people. These include: for work, or the provision of voluntary or charitable services"
As a few have mentioned above, there are concerns about the website crashing/being too slow to upload the answer in time. How much time should a candidate leave to ensure the answer is submitted in time? 5/10/15 minutes?
ReplyDeletePlease can the PEB ensure that there is a backup method of uploading on the day (maybe an email address?). Another, more technical solution, would be for the website to locally calculate a hash of the answer document(s), with only the hash being submitted before the time limit. The candidate can then submit the documents at their leisure, as the hash can be used to demonstrate that no changes have been made to the document(s).
I promise there will be a backup if the system crashes. That is part of what is being tested this week. You might not see what the backup is as it might be behind the scenes but I and the PEB have stipulated that it HAS to be there.
DeleteBy the way, the extra time allocated to all exams this year is not to give you more "writing" time. The exam is still its usual time allocation with the additional time being for downloading, uploading and screen breaks. I believe you are allocated 25 minutes in total for downloading and uploading for FD1, FD2 and FD4 and 20 minutes for all the other exams, including Foundations.
DeleteI agree. I stuck to the 4 hours and 5 hours exam for FD1 and FD4 and found that the extra time for printing, converting to pdf and uploading is vital.
DeleteI want to copy and paste the comments above in that the system do seem pretty slow and it does give me some anxious moments. I'm aware that this has been brought to the attention of PEB so hopefully, they can improve it.
It was welcome development to have a full scale trial of the PEBX system and somewhat allayed my fears of the actual day however FD4 is now pushing 6 hours as an exam; many people will welcome this extra time to get through what is already a very time pressured test but I think we all need to take a step back and have a grown up conversation whether a 6 hour paper really is fit for purpose anymore (7 if you have extra time).
ReplyDeleteAre we really saying that one 6 hour paper is the best way to test I&V (if it has to be assessed at all) or are we now testing endurance of candidates and their ability to assimilate reams of information in a short period of time.
Agreed - FD1 and especially FD4 exam has always been hot debate and whether the exam format now (before online) is the most appropriate way. I think a discussion of the demands put on trainees and how assessments are done is a good thing and should be done ASAP.
DeleteI agree that such a long exam needs looking at and it is something I am addressing with the FD4 examining team but, ultimately we are directed by IPREG. Please note the exam is not nearly 6 hours long. You still have only 5 hours for the exam. There is an additional 20 minutes to use as breaks from the screen and 25 minutes to use before and after to download and print, and upload your answer.
DeleteHi Sarah, that's interesting - myself and a lot of trainees are under the impression that they are able to write (and effectively extend the exam time) using the screen breaks and 25 mins for upload and download and that invigilators will not stop them doing this? Will they be stopped from effectively answering questions during this time? Thanks
DeleteBut surely if you only take 10 minutes to download, print and upload, you effectively have an extra 15 minutes? There's nothing on the question paper that requires you take 25 minutes to do the printing and uploading - indeed, printing is optional. Also, what are you allowed to do during screen breaks? Can you look at the printed exam paper? Can you hand write stuff? Can you go to the toilet, or eat something? Are they timed, and if so, by whom?
DeleteI have asked the PEB Governance Board to clarify but my understanding is the exam time length hasn't changed, except for the screen beak time which some candidates will work through even though the shouldn't.
DeleteI think you can do what you want for the screen break time. The zoom feed is being recorded so we can flag if anything looks unusual, which is why I recommend you either talk to the invigilator or put comments in the chat so they (and eventually the examiners) can see that everything is above board.
The way I look at it is everyone needs to be treated the same. If one person needs 20 minutes to upload their script it is not fair to them if another candidate uses 15 minutes of that time to continue writing.
Watch this space and I'll let you know.
It certainly took me 15-20 mins to download, print, log in, upload.
DeleteI did take breaks but I took it when I needed it. If enmass enforced, it may not be as effective as it can be. Also - there is nothing worse then someone disturbing your thought process.
I think there must be an element of trust for candidates to decide for themselves.
I tested FD1, FD3 and FD4 and as far as I can tell, I do need the extra time for printing, screen breaks etc... There wasn't much time for me to effectively extend any writing and I've asked a few others too who said that the time allowed for the exams were mostly spent as intended.
DeleteIt's very much dependent on your printer speed, Internet connection etc... It took a while for me to access PEBX and download, upload, print etc... So I did used up most of the 25 mins. There's nothing I can do to improve broadband speed in a few weeks.
DeleteAs for screen breaks, I did used a couple of these throughout the exam.
The FD4 just says you have 5 hours 45 minutes in which to print the paper if desired, take four screen rest breaks of 5 minutes each, save your answer doc to your hard drive as a pdf, scan any hand annotated claims and save them, upload your answer document to the PEBX system. It doesn't say 'the exam time is 5 hours, the other 45 mins is for other stuff.' So if that's what the PEB mean, they need to change the front page of the paper and let us know. The PEB also needs to say what can and cannot be done in the screen breaks, otherwise people are either going to end up unwittingly using them 'improperly' or are going to disadvantage themselves by not doing things they could have done.
DeleteIt is my understanding that you will not be stopped from writing at any point.
DeleteIndeed the invigilator will not tell you the examination is over.
It is your responsibility to upload it by the cut off. If you don't you will fail.
Leave it as late as you dare. But as Sarah mentions below, if the scanner stops working in the last 5 minutes of your time, it might be a hard sell to the PEB to suggest you did everything possible to upload it in the 20/25 minutes.
When i tested FD4 i found 10 minutes were used up before i started, 10 minutes after. So i think it would be foolish to carry on writing. Especially considering there is concern about too many users. Might require a few attempts to upload. But if you think its worth it go ahead
I would add to one of the comment above that not everyone will need a screen break at exactly the same time. It will be horrible if someone interrupts your train of thought every hour. The EPO gives you an extra 30 minutes but it does not force candidates to stop writing/thinking/reading for those 30 minutes - there is an element of trust/leeway for candidates to decide for themselves.
DeleteEvery candidate will be at different stages of the exam question/thought process so I also think that by forcing screen breaks at particular times would disadvantage some candidates and not others. I think candidates should be left to decide for themselves.
I'm not sure how a general rule can be enforced for printing, scanning etc.. for example, some may need 15 minutes to print the paper because they have a slow printer but they can upload their script in 10 minutes.
DeleteA second candidate can print their paper in 10 minutes (slightly faster) but need 15 minutes to convert pdf and upload (because they have slower computer processor and slower internet speeds).
So I'm not sure how this can be universally applied because it really does boil down to individual internet speed and IT equipment.
I personally think it is fair to give 25 minutes in general for all these activities otherwise we are going to make the exams more complicated and it's already quite complex this year.
I'm not sure if this is just me but I actually found typing out answers this year to be slower than writing out the answers (in previous years).
DeleteIf you look at Item 4.3 of the Essential Information for Designated Contacts, it says that they will print the paper for the candidates BEFORE THE EXAM STARTS so that the candidates have it ready on their desk and can read the front page before the exam start time. So those sitting the exam at the office have a head start because they don't have to print the paper. Also, they aren't filmed - so if they forget to take a screen break, and the invigilator doesn't notice, or doesn't want to shop their colleague, the they are fine, whereas those sitting at home are recorded and the PEB could, if it wanted to, pore over the footage to find minor infractions of their ambiguous rules. So the PEB have created a two tier system for the exams. Those sitting in the office have more time, because they have the paper straightaway, and are far less likely to be picked up for eg not taking screen breaks. And the two tier system was established after it was too late to change venue. So if you chose to do it at home, it appears that you unwittingly chose to be disadvantaged. This doesn't seem very fair.
DeleteHardly,
Delete1) People at home can access the paper at the same time as in the office. You can read on the computer while you print it out...Also if you are in an office you will likley be in a queue to print it off, which could take a long time. For FD4 i would be in a queue of 8 people.
2) You can take your screen breaks when you want. You can take 30 seconds every 6 minutes if you want. Your screen break could be looking at the desk infront of you. How will anyone be able to measure when you take your screen breaks unless they have a tracker on your eyes? If you choose to ignore screen breaks that is up to you. its your health at the end of the day.
Nobody can see a candidates screen at home. This is a two tier system because the trainee at home has an opportunity to cheat. This doesn't seem fair.
There are differences depending on where you sit it. These can't be remedied because the facts are different.
No, candidates in the office don't have to queue to print the paper. It will be on their desk before the exam starts. That's what the document for designated contacts says. So they will have it before those at home.
DeleteWhy take the risk on the day to leave it 2 minutes before uploading your script. The PEBX system was incredibly slow so I would suggest you use the last 10-15 minutes to check your pdf is converted probably and upload.
DeleteI think there must be some trust/responsibility for candidates to decide on the time given to them for themselves. Otherwise, things will get so complex and confusing on the day.
Yes, but if they didn't have it on their desks, they would have to queue.
DeleteCandidates at home will have access to the paper at the same time as those in the office. You can read the paper online the second the exam starts. Likewise candidates can only open the paper the second the exam starts.
In an ideal world, of course you would want the candidate to have it infront of them, but doing it at home means there is nobody preventing you from reading it in those 30 minutes before the exam (there is if you do it in the office). But that works the other way as stated above, in an ideal world you would want to be able to monitor the screens of people doing it at home (like they can in the office), but that isn't possible.
There will be differences because in one case you have lots of people and an invigilator, and in others you have no invigilator and one person.
That's just the way it goes. The PEB are trying to make it fair for everyone, that doesn't mean equal treatment though because everyone's situation will be different.
This is such a minor point as well. Most printers print at around 20 pages per minute, so you are talking about 30 seconds difference (you can start reading page 1 of the exam while the rest of the document is printing). Not sure this "difference" makes it completely unfair.
The idea of forcing candidates to stop midway through writing an answer (even though you are within the allocated time) and force them to sit there for the last 10 minutes doesn't sit well with me. Candidates should really save enough time to download, print, convert to pdf and upload. It should be up to them. Making more complex rules will just make it so much worse. 25 minutes for candidates to consider downloading etc... is fair and you will find the vast majority if not all candidates will use most of that time to do so.
Deleteno-one is "forcing" any candidates to stop midway though writing an answer or to sit there for the last 10 minutes. No-one if "forcing" any candidates to do anything and nor will they be. It is indeed up to candidates to take responsibility for themselves in terms of taking screen breaks if they need them and leaving enough time at the end of an exam for document conversions, scanning and uploading. People sitting these exams are adults capable of looking after themselves, even in an exam situation, and they are expected to behave like professionals.
DeleteTotally agree with Sarah's comments here. We are all adults so it is down to us to manage our time appropriately in the allocated period.
DeleteWould the answer sheet be the same on the day of the exam i.e. with our candidate number on. If so, I may print some blank pages off and try uploading some hand-written notes on the system.
ReplyDeleteAlso - if the pdf sheets are for some reason not compatible, would it be rejected straightaway i.e. cannot upload the pdf docs.
The answer sheet will indeed be exactly as you are seeing it this week. The aim of this week is to use and abuse the system as much as you can/want to so we can be aware of any potential issues.
DeleteIf the pdf sheets are not compatible then there should be a contingency to submit documents - I suspect via email - that have not been allowed by the system and then you request special consideration. I had a play with lots of different pdf converters when I tested the system and they all seemed to work so I hope they do for you too : )
Many thanks Sarah Boxall for trying to answer as many of the queries candidates have on here.
ReplyDeleteWe all wish there could be more dialogue between PEB and candidates in general. Perhaps a session between candidates and PEB after the exams to give feedback on the online system.
I am very happy to help, not least because the system has to work for everyone. I am very happy to have a session and to listen to feedback which I can pass on to the PEB. There are features that I would like to see in future that have simply not been possible to sort out this year and people's feedback will be appreciated.
DeleteAll I ask is that comments are constructive and it is not a mud slinging session at the examining team, the exams per se or the PEB. Angelina has done an absolutely herculean amount of work this year which simply didn't look possible in April. But it had to be done and it has been done. All I wish for is the best possible outcome for candidates.
I think that would be good to have a session on just the online system. In my view it should include firms and attorneys too.
DeleteA seperate discussion on the exams per se and whether it is suitable or not would be different from this. Many including myself do not agree with the current format but this is different from giving actual feedback on the online system.
I think most are in agreement that PEBX works albeit there are some minor tethering issues thus far. Students have been asking for an online format for a long time so it's pleasing to see it.
DeleteMost candidates want PEB to modernise and succeed so I very much welcome the opportunity to give feedback for the online system.
This is great : ) I will see that something is set up after the exams have been sat. If nothing is forthcoming, please remind me as I will have my head in marking from Nov onwards.
DeleteI tried the amendment paper this morning and am unable to copy and paste the claims into the answer sheet to be amended. The formatting goes haywire - even if I copy and paste the claims in sections.
ReplyDeleteI reported this to PEB and was merely told that they couldn't help. The exam is already time pressured at 3 hours and I don't want to have to manually type out the claims. PEB have refused to provide the claims as a separate word document or to made the PDF editable/enable copy and paste. Any suggestions? All Office features are up to date on my computer and *seemed* to be working for the other papers.
I am not sure what options are available here if PEB refuse to budge but it is a waste of valuable time to type out each claim by hand to just to amend it.
ah, now this is a problem. Exactly what happens to the formatting and is it rectifiable quickly and easily? If you want to ping me an email I will see what I can do. I understand your frustration and it would be interesting to know whether anyone else has had the same problem. It may be just an issue with the 2019 paper and I should be able to test this.
DeleteFor the record, the PEB has not "refused to provide the claims as a separate word document or to make the PDF editable/enable copy and paste". We have looked into this as it was a main request from me but the firm who provides the paper has simply not been able to include the claims (this year) in the answer document. I know not why but that's all the info I have and I promise we tried. This year's paper _should_ be enabled for copy and paste and it certainly was when I had a play.
I have also had this problem yesterday with FD4, it looks like the PDF can sometimes throw out random syntax when copied into word such as an erroneous '?' or numbers in between words.
DeleteI will speak to the PEB and see if the folk who provide the paper can confirm that these issues won't arise with the pdf version of this year's paper. At least random syntnax is easily identifiable and quickly corrected.
DeleteI am as frustrated as you that a word version of the claims cannot be provided. It was a system coding matter that was a step too many for the programmers and we needed to make sure the basics worked first.
Just a thought - have you tried saving the pdf to your desktop and the opening it in Adobe, rather than working straight off the download? Might make a difference, I don't know.
DeleteAlternatively, can you covert the pdf to a Word document? I can't see why you shouldn't be allowed to do this as it is your exam paper to do with it what you wish.
Yes I also had this problem when copying and pasting. It doesn't seem to recognise the letter 'i' well and gave a random symbol as a replacement.
DeleteMe too and it's very random as well so you can't always easily spot the copy and paste error.
DeleteThanks for the suggestion, yes I had tried saving in various formats to see if it would work and no dice. Not sure what other actions I can take here.
DeleteFolks - if the clock stops and you haven't finished uploading, what will be submitted for marking will be what you have uploaded. If you can prove that there was an internet issue that prevented you from uploading your answer in time then you will need to request special consideration.
ReplyDeleteYou are _very_ unlikely to be awarded special consideration if you were writing after the exam was supposed to have finished and you simply ran out of time to upload, not least because this is malpractice.
Also, please upload a SINGLE answer document. Some people seem to be uploading parts of their answer as separate documents. I have been told that the document handling part of the system will not be able to cope with this and so all that will be sent for marking will be the last document uploaded.
Consider yourselves warned! Please make the most of this test session to check that you are comfortable with all the document conversion and upload requirements.
If I find out any further nuggets, I will let you know.
The system won't let me upload and try out anything else. I think once it has uploaded, that's it. As I've done FD1 and FD4, I no longer have a live link to test the system again with new pdfs. Can this be reset as I can't test the system again given the news about only uploading 1 pdf and not multiple pdfs as Sarah has mentioned.
DeleteHi Sarah, section 5 of the "Essential Information For Candidates" explicitly states that we *SHOULD* upload separate documents:
Delete"At the end of the Examination: If you have PDFs of annotated claims or diagrams, they should be saved in the format FD1-12345-Claims or FD2-12345-Diagrams".
Please can you clarify as a matter of urgency.
ok, this is definitely contrary to what I was told yesterday so let me check....
DeleteThis is my mistake and I apologise for the confusion. Your answer script should be uploaded as a single document. Any handwritten notes, claim/diagram annotations, timelines etc may also be uploaded. I think some people were uploading their answer for FD4 construction, infringement, novelty etc etc as separate files, which is the issue as there is a risk not all parts of the answer may be acknowledged by the system for some reason.
DeleteI hope this is clear and, again, I apologise for the confusion.
We have a HUGE number of candidates sitting a lot of exams this year - way more than usual - and the script processing is and has to be highly automated. This is where and why the bottlenecks and issues arise.
Thanks for the quick reply Sarah :) All of your comments here are very much appreciated.
DeleteIn general I am quite positive with PEBX.
ReplyDeleteOne thing I wish we can do is to view the uploaded Pdf document on the PEBX system before we press the submit/end exam button.
Can this still be implemented or is it too late.
Sarah. Is there a possibility to upload more than 1 Pdf docs to the system and for it to be taken into account.
ReplyDeleteOne for the proper answer and one for the drawings on a seperate Pdf or do we have to create one single Pdf.
The Essential information for candidates suggests you can upload more than one document. See section 5 sub-section titled "At the end of the examination".... why would you they tell you what name format to save it as if you could only submit the filename you are given.
DeleteBut Sarah above says you can only submit one document?
This seems to be contrasting with the essential information for candidates. Can this point be confirmed?
For FD4, I was able to upload my answer booklet and a pdf of the claims from the exam paper (with the features marked out).
DeleteIt seems I was given conflicting information yesterday so let me check. My understanding initially was that you could upload more than one document, but I may have misunderstood the conversation I had.
Deletesee above - I apologise for the confusion : /
DeleteOK, thanks Sarah.
DeleteThere are lots of useful feedback/advice and clarification points in this blog. Will PEB release some further updates/guidelines because I can imagine not all candidates (and/or indeed invigilators) are on this blog.
I don't think there is a plan to release any more information as all the information that _should_ be required should already be out and I don't think any of it has changed. However, I will contact the Informals and ask if there is a way of sending this thread around to people or directing them here.
DeleteIs it possible to open email to access scanned documents if a candidate is sitting the exam at home? The guidance to candidates appears to imply use of email is only permitted in the office (page 5 - "In this situation only, it is permitted to have email open and to use it during the last 20 minutes of the Examination time (25 minutes for FD4)."). Otherwise for candidates sitting exams from home I'm not sure how they get scanned documents from a mobile (if using a scan to pdf app) to the computer? Thanks.
ReplyDeleteI think you have to be able to access email to retrieve documents. I know I certainly do to get my scanned docs and I have told the PEB this.
DeleteThis is a very good point.
DeleteAlso - when is the last 25 minutes of the examination time? Is this 25 minutes before time is up on the system?
The 25 mins is the total time you are allocated for all the downloading, printing, scanning and uploading before and after the exam. Forgive me but I can't remember whether the paper is downloadable before the clock starts. Testing the system this week should have answered that one for you.
DeleteFor FD4, for example, the opportunity to upload will close after 5 hours and 45 mins so it is up to you to manage that time and make sure you have everything uploaded before the clock stops.
If there is a problem during the exam, it says that we should **email** pebx. Am I the only one seeing a problem with this? I know it was mentioned in the above blog post but there doesn't seem to be an obvious way to contact PEB in case of issue. If internet dies, then I can't access my email from my computer and will need to use my phone - which could be seen as malpractice couldn't it? Using the phone would seem the obvious option but I don't want to open myself up to any accusations of breaking the rules...
ReplyDeleteYes, the invigilator cannot tell you when to stop writing.
DeleteNot least because they do not have access to the "official time" through the PEBx Portal.
Theoretically it may be possible to write for 24 out of 25 minutes of the uploading time. I really don't think that would happen in reality. Why would you risk it? doesn't make sense to me or anyone i've spoken to who is sitting the exam, especially given the system is experimental.
Well don't submit your paper then.
DeleteIf you are caught in such a situation you need to use your common sense. What do you think is worse, submitting it using a mobile connection or not submitting it? Deal with the fallout after.
PEB can't legislate for every edge case.
It's hardly an edge case. It seems to be common sense to not have email as the only contact method for the PEB if your internet fails.
Deletemy suggestion is, if you lose internet connection, email the PEB as soon as you regain connection. You will then need to submit a request for special consideration together with evidence that proves why you were unable to upload. As I have said above, legitimate reasons will be given the appropriate consideration that they deserve. For some reason there is a real concern about cheating/malpractice so, providing you have done everything you could and should, you should not be penalised.
DeleteI'm a bit worried about zoom cutting off (as happened on some client calls over the last 6 months). Do we at least have a backup/alternative if zoom cuts you off e.g. can we connect to a back-up skype call.
ReplyDeleteas has been stated a number of times above, if you have any technical issues, candidates are advised to contact the PEB as soon as they are able once the issue has been resolved. You then request special consideration, providing evidence of what happened, what was done to resolve the situation and essentially, prove to IPREG and the Marking Examining Team that there was no cheating or malpractice. As I have stated, if the issue is genuine, such requests will be treated with the consideration they deserve, i.e. allowance of the special consideration.
DeleteOn the chance that you finish your paper early - say within 3.5 hours rather than 4 hours, as long as you've uploaded your pdf script etc... are you then forced to wait for the next hour OR can you leave early.
ReplyDeleteInteresting. Not sure about this.
DeleteI think aslong as you are not in the last 30 minutes of published end time (i.e. on the timer on pebX) you should be allowed to leave. This is because the concept of screen breaks and scanning/printing/declaration time is talked as like an add-on, but the reality is you will use bits of this time throughout, e.g. 10 minutes of printing/declaration time at start, screen breaks every hour...so you could be writing at 4:15 legitimately, if you took 20 mins to print and do declaration, and you've had a screen break etc. In this case, i think it would also be legitimate to leave with 30 mins left on the timer because that 30mins could actually include some "proper" exam time. Hope that makes sense.
Bold move though, I've never seen anyone leave a final exam early. Revision must have gone well for you lol
I'm sure on the day - no one will dare leave early but it is one of the points for the feedback session after the exams. I guess candidates would like to know if it is possible.
DeleteAlso - would you be allowed to go to a loo break after the last 20-30 minutes of the exam - just like in the written exam. These things probably needs ironing out a bit more but probably too late for this year.
Yes of course you can leave the exam early, just as you can in an exam hall. The "no leaving within the last 30 minutes" in previous years is so other candidates in the room are not disturbed, but such a situation will not arise this year unless you are invigilated in a firm.
DeleteIf you need to go to the loo, you need to go. If you can hold on, I suggest you do!
OK folks, this could be the last comment from me because most questions seem to have been asked and, hopefully, answered. Thank you for the positive comments on the PEBX system, which gives me heart and I hope that candidates feel a little calmer about the new system.
ReplyDeleteAn updated Essential Information for Candidates WILL be issued next week taking into consideration all the feedback from this week's trial, for which everyone is thanked. No further testing is, unfortunately, available because the system now needs to be completely cleared and documents for each individual candidate and paper needs to be uploaded and checked manually. To give you an idea of scale, this will be 1350 individual and unique entries. As a result, the PEB will be extremely occupied until 12th October and it would be appreciated if you bore this in mind.
There seem to be an alarming number of candidates who have not tested the system. For example, 68 FD4 candidates have not tested the system. Hopefully, this is because they have tested the system adequately on other papers. However, I have been made aware that some students have flags on their emails so they do not receive automated emails from either CIPA or the PEB. IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY AS A CANDIDATE TO MAKE SURE YOU ARE ABLE TO RECEIVE ALL RELEVANT INFORMATION, IN WHATEVER FORM IT IS ISSUED. If in doubt, information is also available on the CIPA and PEB websites.
Good luck everyone. See you the other side!
I used LibreOffice to enter my answers and it seemed to work fine. However the formatting looked slightly off until I opened the .DOC file from my saved copy rather than from the web. I'd like to know if this was acceptable or whether I still need to buy Word.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing nobody seems to have mentioned about uploading answers is that you can upload as often as you like. That is, if you create a PDF after one hour you can upload the answer sheets, and you can do this again at the end of two hours. It will ask you if you want to overwrite.
This way if you internet fails in the last half hour you have some evidence for your progress so far.
That may be a good thing but you have to convert your answer into pdf every time so it is massively time consuming to keep doing this throughout the exam.
DeleteNo really, my software has a button "export direct as PDF", one click to produce it and another two to upload it. Hardly massively time consuming.
DeleteCould IPKAT do another post when new guidelines are released. Some candidates are obtaining information (in some cases more quickly) through this blog.
ReplyDeleteFrom Sarah's comment of Thursday, 24 September 2020 at 16:37:00 BST, it seems that no further guidance will be given by the PEB. IPKat will publish a summary of the information above in a new post in the next few days.
DeleteThanks Rose (and IPKAT too)
DeleteCorrection: I see that we are to expect an updated Essential Information for Candidates, as per Sarah's comment of Thursday, 24 September 2020 at 17:34:00 BST. We will publicise when this is released.
DeleteThanks to Sarah for answering some questions here and to the IPKat for creating the article in the first place to promote the discussions! We (the Informals) will also be writing an article about the new guidelines when they are released on the Yellow Sheet Blog.
ReplyDeleteGood luck everyone.